I don't stated advantatge, only tell one possible reason what's people agree more conical than elliptical
I believe more in proper set-up than only the kind of tips, there is a lot ot other reasons for good set-up
, not all final sound depends only of tip, mine point of view is that argument will be not serious for me
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With normal tonearms, you never get enough accurate setting. You will need a tangential arm with all its drawbacks.
A well adjusted conical needle works very well, very safe tracking, no ageing of the records and so on.
I would subscribe this statement. The whole system is the solution. Many ways are leading to rome. And in the end, the differences are very subtle.
Not to difficult, I already made it (just look the video from Thomas Schick how to do it YouTube - Denon DL-103 Wood Body Modification Tutorial ).
But: I dont like the unprotected cantilever, no possibility to protect it. And you dont have good mounting points afterwards.
Look this picture, it is my first DL103 I had:
At one point it began to play with strong distortion and I did not know the cause. After striping down the enclosure, I discovered this situation:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Iron parts in the air gap! I handled this cartridge on my workbench, where I worked before with iron...
Back to the actual situation:
I just followed the consult to reduce arms mass and removed the coin and readjusted the tracking weight.
Not sure, if I was really on the wrong side, yet.
Franz
I see the video that's was mine suggestion to get less mass.
Sound-smith do several upgrades for Denon DL103R if you want only the wood body for 103 cost with shipping 235$00 to Europe & you avoid the problem to fix the cart.
Wow, very nice photo with a lot of iron dust, can't clean up?
Sound-smith do several upgrades for Denon DL103R if you want only the wood body for 103 cost with shipping 235$00 to Europe & you avoid the problem to fix the cart.
Wow, very nice photo with a lot of iron dust, can't clean up?
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bluetack is a nice idea , adesive tape ?
or this ones
http://www.cyberclean.it/cybercleancarvideo.html?height=390&width=470
or this ones
http://www.cyberclean.it/cybercleancarvideo.html?height=390&width=470
This is another first for me... I never imagined this danger... Now I believe it is quite possible to happen... the magnets in MC carts are VERY powerfull.
Once my Benz captured the screwdriver with such force I could not help it (It did not reach the cantilever by luck)
@Rcruz
Magnets used are: Samarium-Cobalt (Allaerts, Koetsu, Kuzma, Transfiguration & Technics), Neodymium (Allaerts, My Sonic Lab, Transfiguration & Air Tight) or Alnico (Allaerts, Audio Note, Dynavector, Red Rose, Van den Hul & Miyabi), Platinum (Koetsu, Lyra).
What about the Tracking Ability at recommended Tracking Force at ...Hz measured in um, how to know or calculate the tracking ability of our cart?
@Franz
I read this about your TP16 in the Turnatable Forum Vinyl:
http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=68395
"The effective mass of the original TP16 (which you have) should be within the necessary range for the Denon. TP16 is rated at 16 g effective mass. The DL103 and R are noted for working well on older heavier arms. Effective mass in the range of 14 to 20 has been suggested by more than a few enthusiastic owners of these Denon carts.
That said, the TP16 has some weak areas which will likely come to fore when a cartridge with a stiffly sprung cantilever is mounted. (like the Denon) Mainly, the weakness of the Tp16 is in how resonances travel throughout the arm. First point of weakness is the headshell mounting joint. You can improve this point by making sure that the coupler nut is good and snug. Don't use tools. Do it by hand. Just make sure you have a solid coupling between headshell and arm tube.....without bending or breaking anything. (Know your own strength.)
The next weak area is in the pivot bearings within the gimbal frame. These are needle and cup and are reputed to be .....uhm, 'consumer grade' quality. You can make sure that the adjustment is good by testing for slack. Lightly grip the arm tube with one hand while gently holding the tonearm at its base with the other, then gently pull/push. Note any free play. If you detect free play, an adjustment is needed at the bearings. Sorry, I don't offer a tutorial on this but the mechanical attachments of these bearings should be self explanatory. The object is to remove all slack within between needles and cups while maintaining free frictionless motion.
Another test of bearing adjustment (for not being too tight) is to set tracking force to zero, anti-skate to zero, balance arm by adjusting position of counterweight so that the headshell end floats in space. Adjust level of turntable so that the arm does not track to either end of its travel. Then lightly blow your breath on the headshell. If it moves, that is a good sign. Even further, is to test this adjustment by waving a piece of paper to generate air movement. If the arm responds to this, even better. Once satisfied of good bearing adjustment, and proper zero balance, re-set the tracking force and anti-skate by means of the adjusters on the TP16. The tracking force adjuster is accurate in its setting. The anti-skate adjuster is approximate in its setting.
After that just make sure you have good cartridge alignment. Make sure your headshell lead clips fit snug to the posts. Stuff like that.
I wouldn't give too much influence to the hfnrr test record. It has its uses. I find it useful for measuring arm/cart resonance at frequency. Also of note are the bias tracks on side one. Tracks 5 thru 9. These are explained to be for adjusting bias. And to a point you can use these for tuning your anti-skate. But...in reality these are torture tracks and reveal the overall tracking ability of your tonearm. You will see greater response to a vtf adjustment while testing over these tracks. With the Tp16, any slack in your bearings will result in a very poor score on tracks 5 thru 9. At one time I witnessed a TP16 literally jump out of the groove on track 9. After bearing adjustment and an increase in the vtf setting, the same tonearm fared better over these tracks."
Waiting can help you.
Magnets used are: Samarium-Cobalt (Allaerts, Koetsu, Kuzma, Transfiguration & Technics), Neodymium (Allaerts, My Sonic Lab, Transfiguration & Air Tight) or Alnico (Allaerts, Audio Note, Dynavector, Red Rose, Van den Hul & Miyabi), Platinum (Koetsu, Lyra).
What about the Tracking Ability at recommended Tracking Force at ...Hz measured in um, how to know or calculate the tracking ability of our cart?
@Franz
I read this about your TP16 in the Turnatable Forum Vinyl:
http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=68395
"The effective mass of the original TP16 (which you have) should be within the necessary range for the Denon. TP16 is rated at 16 g effective mass. The DL103 and R are noted for working well on older heavier arms. Effective mass in the range of 14 to 20 has been suggested by more than a few enthusiastic owners of these Denon carts.
That said, the TP16 has some weak areas which will likely come to fore when a cartridge with a stiffly sprung cantilever is mounted. (like the Denon) Mainly, the weakness of the Tp16 is in how resonances travel throughout the arm. First point of weakness is the headshell mounting joint. You can improve this point by making sure that the coupler nut is good and snug. Don't use tools. Do it by hand. Just make sure you have a solid coupling between headshell and arm tube.....without bending or breaking anything. (Know your own strength.)
The next weak area is in the pivot bearings within the gimbal frame. These are needle and cup and are reputed to be .....uhm, 'consumer grade' quality. You can make sure that the adjustment is good by testing for slack. Lightly grip the arm tube with one hand while gently holding the tonearm at its base with the other, then gently pull/push. Note any free play. If you detect free play, an adjustment is needed at the bearings. Sorry, I don't offer a tutorial on this but the mechanical attachments of these bearings should be self explanatory. The object is to remove all slack within between needles and cups while maintaining free frictionless motion.
Another test of bearing adjustment (for not being too tight) is to set tracking force to zero, anti-skate to zero, balance arm by adjusting position of counterweight so that the headshell end floats in space. Adjust level of turntable so that the arm does not track to either end of its travel. Then lightly blow your breath on the headshell. If it moves, that is a good sign. Even further, is to test this adjustment by waving a piece of paper to generate air movement. If the arm responds to this, even better. Once satisfied of good bearing adjustment, and proper zero balance, re-set the tracking force and anti-skate by means of the adjusters on the TP16. The tracking force adjuster is accurate in its setting. The anti-skate adjuster is approximate in its setting.
After that just make sure you have good cartridge alignment. Make sure your headshell lead clips fit snug to the posts. Stuff like that.
I wouldn't give too much influence to the hfnrr test record. It has its uses. I find it useful for measuring arm/cart resonance at frequency. Also of note are the bias tracks on side one. Tracks 5 thru 9. These are explained to be for adjusting bias. And to a point you can use these for tuning your anti-skate. But...in reality these are torture tracks and reveal the overall tracking ability of your tonearm. You will see greater response to a vtf adjustment while testing over these tracks. With the Tp16, any slack in your bearings will result in a very poor score on tracks 5 thru 9. At one time I witnessed a TP16 literally jump out of the groove on track 9. After bearing adjustment and an increase in the vtf setting, the same tonearm fared better over these tracks."
Waiting can help you.
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Merlin
Very friendly from you, but again:
I am using turntables for more than 40 years now. And had mostly good tables / arms / cartridges.
And I can assure you: also the Thorens TD160, its tonearm and bearings are very familiar to me for many years.
I adjusted all bearings before using the turntable.
And also the link does not tell something new for me. I know since a long time the TP16 and DL103(R) is a good combination. And as you said, you can fiddle with the mass between 14 and 20g, what I already did.
Thanks anyway
Franz
Very friendly from you, but again:
I am using turntables for more than 40 years now. And had mostly good tables / arms / cartridges.
And I can assure you: also the Thorens TD160, its tonearm and bearings are very familiar to me for many years.
I adjusted all bearings before using the turntable.
And also the link does not tell something new for me. I know since a long time the TP16 and DL103(R) is a good combination. And as you said, you can fiddle with the mass between 14 and 20g, what I already did.
Thanks anyway
Franz
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Merlin
Yes, I just tried it: compared to the DL103R it sounds like through a curtain. But, it could be the tip was heavily used, as I dont know the history of this cartridge.
I also stripped down a headshell and glued the DL103R into the headshell. Nearby two grams less.
I cannot say for sure that it is better. Both, the lighter and the heavier version are playing up to 90 micrometer sinus horizontal without distortion.
Maybe the bass for the lighter version is a little bit more precise?
Franz
Yes, I just tried it: compared to the DL103R it sounds like through a curtain. But, it could be the tip was heavily used, as I dont know the history of this cartridge.
I also stripped down a headshell and glued the DL103R into the headshell. Nearby two grams less.
I cannot say for sure that it is better. Both, the lighter and the heavier version are playing up to 90 micrometer sinus horizontal without distortion.
Maybe the bass for the lighter version is a little bit more precise?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Franz
Bravo Franz, with changes now you have a FS of 7.84Hz very near the minimum optimum of 8Hz so is normal that subjectively the bass is more focused or articulated not boomy or difused.
Can you take off the headshell handle, 1gr less you reach a FS 8.01Hz, the optimal FS for your arm is from 8Hz till 11Hz.
Can you take off the headshell handle, 1gr less you reach a FS 8.01Hz, the optimal FS for your arm is from 8Hz till 11Hz.
Merlin
today I cannot listen to vinyl on my big speakers.
Why?
Because I removed the ugly IMG-Stage-Line crossover and the amps.
And now I am stuck with another longtime project: an active 3-way crossover integrated with two t-amps in one enclosure.
On bottom left, you see the psu for the t-amps. Bottom right the psu for +/-15V for the Rod Elliott crossover.
And on top right you see the two t-amps, Sureelectronics TA-2024.
Every module for itself is working perfectly.
But not together.
Strong hum.
I tried all different kinds of grounding topology, as I am quite sure, it IS a grounding problem. There is NO ground loop.
Bus topology, star topology, nothing does help. Everytime I connect all modules together and power them up: very strong hum.
I also tried shielded coax cabling for the signal, the shielding connected to the source.
Hum.
There is no gnd contact to the enclosure from the circuit boards or connectors.
Moving boards or cables does not change the hum.
The shields from the trannies and the safety ground are connected to the enclosure but not the circuits grounds.
Sh..., maybe I have to go back to a breadboard setup, wich I skipped and already prepared the enclosures :-(
Any suggestions appreciated, also possible by PM to not hijack this thread.
Thanks
Franz
today I cannot listen to vinyl on my big speakers.
Why?
Because I removed the ugly IMG-Stage-Line crossover and the amps.
And now I am stuck with another longtime project: an active 3-way crossover integrated with two t-amps in one enclosure.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
On bottom left, you see the psu for the t-amps. Bottom right the psu for +/-15V for the Rod Elliott crossover.
And on top right you see the two t-amps, Sureelectronics TA-2024.
Every module for itself is working perfectly.
But not together.
Strong hum.
I tried all different kinds of grounding topology, as I am quite sure, it IS a grounding problem. There is NO ground loop.
Bus topology, star topology, nothing does help. Everytime I connect all modules together and power them up: very strong hum.
I also tried shielded coax cabling for the signal, the shielding connected to the source.
Hum.
There is no gnd contact to the enclosure from the circuit boards or connectors.
Moving boards or cables does not change the hum.
The shields from the trannies and the safety ground are connected to the enclosure but not the circuits grounds.
Sh..., maybe I have to go back to a breadboard setup, wich I skipped and already prepared the enclosures :-(
Any suggestions appreciated, also possible by PM to not hijack this thread.
Thanks
Franz
