Denon will have the most characterful sound with its vintage design. Look at its 'huge' spherical stylus when compared to the AT33's tip. I was able to macro it on my DL-103R with just my phone.
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Maybe due to extra de-ringing RC components at the new transformer's secondaries that your previous build possibly misses?
Yes, good spot Salas... But, I have snubbers on both PSU build secondaries. The PSU differences are size and model of Antek transformer, the transfo can/shield, external umbilical is a different brand (Canare vs. Mogami) quad. Could just be the transformer itself? The new PSU has a less overkill transformer...50va 2x32 vs 100va 2x32? Wouldn’t think that would matter? But....high sensitivity environment in the amp?
Certainly has less of a field when smaller and canned. Are the snubbers of same effect on two different transformers though? FFT noise floor measurements on the same phono with one and the other Raw PSU connected when sitting at the same place could reveal if there is a true difference in quietness between using them.
I don't have any quantifiable verifications on the snubber effects—figure it can't hurt—and I understand some of the theory and it makes sense to me. I scope the transformer with Mark Johnson's Quasimodo jig and then use the CRC arrangement he came up with—R being determined by me with the scope and his jig—the caps are values Mark has outlined. So the R values between the different transfos aren't the same.
I'm game to take some measurements. I'd like to know personally—No real idea how to take those measurements though... I have been prepping to use REW to analyze stuff related to the OSMC speaker build...Not sure of what's involved with taking noise floor measurements.
Are you willing to run down the basics of how to do that? See if I can glean an understanding? Hopefully I have the equipment?
Also—Cart report on Ultra—as it evolves:
Put the DL-103 back in play this am, after a week with the HanaML and a day with the AT33PTG/2... family response was: "What happened?", Haha—they had no idea what I did—blind trial—and I did happen to agree with their ears. So, I'm going to install the 103 on my other homemade deck, belt drive, SME arm for a comparo to "The SP-10 on heavy layered plinth with the Jelco and the Hana is a showcase of Japanese analog cool." Love that sentiment Salas. Should be interesting.
Suffice it to say I'm loving the AT33PTG/2 more and more. I love the HanaML too. Might say that it's not worth double the price? Or is it?... LOL. (BTW—large range of music played here—rock, jazz, country, acoustic, electronic, pop....)
I'm game to take some measurements. I'd like to know personally—No real idea how to take those measurements though... I have been prepping to use REW to analyze stuff related to the OSMC speaker build...Not sure of what's involved with taking noise floor measurements.
Are you willing to run down the basics of how to do that? See if I can glean an understanding? Hopefully I have the equipment?
Also—Cart report on Ultra—as it evolves:
Put the DL-103 back in play this am, after a week with the HanaML and a day with the AT33PTG/2... family response was: "What happened?", Haha—they had no idea what I did—blind trial—and I did happen to agree with their ears. So, I'm going to install the 103 on my other homemade deck, belt drive, SME arm for a comparo to "The SP-10 on heavy layered plinth with the Jelco and the Hana is a showcase of Japanese analog cool." Love that sentiment Salas. Should be interesting.
Suffice it to say I'm loving the AT33PTG/2 more and more. I love the HanaML too. Might say that it's not worth double the price? Or is it?... LOL. (BTW—large range of music played here—rock, jazz, country, acoustic, electronic, pop....)
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I own both the Hana ML and the AT33PTG/2. I like the Hana ML better with the Salas phono stage. It's a beautiful sounding combo. The Hana sounds more colored to me than the AT. I like the AT better with the Pearl II, which is already a bit too colored on its own to handle the additional color of the Hana.
I am really interested in knowing how you like those monkey coffins once they are built. I have some interest in building them, but they are not an inexpensive project.
I am really interested in knowing how you like those monkey coffins once they are built. I have some interest in building them, but they are not an inexpensive project.
I find all of this just awesome—what a gift. I'm thinking I agree with your assessment HanaML vs AT33PTG/2 as far as Ultra goes. No experience with Pearl. It seems that loading is a taste thing... I find the Hana at home at 100R. The AT, moving up from 100R per the schematic values, just gets better to me. At 560R it feels fantastic to my senses...but it's perhaps still too soon to tell (I think Salas mentioned 400R at some point). I've mentioned it before—but making another plinth for a 12" arm at the back seems obvious to me right now.
All of this is excellent prep for the Monkey Coffins. I have dual single driver speaks at the moment. The change to OSMCs is likely going to be huge. Also, exactly like my understanding of UFSP and FSP—those speaks are likely not exactly commercially viable (4 order mid crossover??) and are therefore like rare gems on the planet—for me cost becomes highly relative....As in, I'd likely never own them if I had to pay retail. Also... that's just not as much fun anyway.
All of this is excellent prep for the Monkey Coffins. I have dual single driver speaks at the moment. The change to OSMCs is likely going to be huge. Also, exactly like my understanding of UFSP and FSP—those speaks are likely not exactly commercially viable (4 order mid crossover??) and are therefore like rare gems on the planet—for me cost becomes highly relative....As in, I'd likely never own them if I had to pay retail. Also... that's just not as much fun anyway.
@pfarell
Since you tailored the snubbing with Quasimodo on the scope for each different transformer it should be adequate. No worries.
For FFT in electronics the tools are a good PC audio card and an analysis program. Just things you already got for speakers other than a microphone. Only very well sorted out for very low self noise. For more you can read threads about ARTA or QuantAsylum. Impossible to instruct in a post. But no pressing issue for noisy vs quiet Raw PSUs in your system now, so you can take your time to learn more about detailed FFT testing in electronics at a point.
The AT33PTG/II is very neutral and really well priced. Neutral is not everybody's cap of tea of course but worth having to can quantify things.
Since you tailored the snubbing with Quasimodo on the scope for each different transformer it should be adequate. No worries.
For FFT in electronics the tools are a good PC audio card and an analysis program. Just things you already got for speakers other than a microphone. Only very well sorted out for very low self noise. For more you can read threads about ARTA or QuantAsylum. Impossible to instruct in a post. But no pressing issue for noisy vs quiet Raw PSUs in your system now, so you can take your time to learn more about detailed FFT testing in electronics at a point.
The AT33PTG/II is very neutral and really well priced. Neutral is not everybody's cap of tea of course but worth having to can quantify things.
I actually use it in the 200R load range but obviously on a different rig and its also well run in. A point I generally disagree is to be loading carts below ten times their published coil resistance. So not to restrict their breathing space. From there on your preference is a matter of sonic matching to the rest of the system. Not only to the components quality but to the tuning also, starting from complete turntable set up geometry all the way to what speakers and room acoustics.
pfallell, I just Q test-jiged my AS 0532's this weekend. What did you come up with. I was at 40.2ohms with defacto Cs and Cx. How did you get them in such a tiny space? And CRC? Wired direct? I am interested in Salas's take on this since he certainly set it up for without. Obviously has it fairly well covered somewhere.
Quasimodo test jig and scope is brand new to me so I have no idea if my value is correct. Way higher than on 4220. Thanks,
Don
There were no Quasimodo equipped diyers back in August 2013 when the FSP was released. I put an EMI filter option though. Rd/link to reservoir capacitor. The sound wasn't harsh on any transformer with that RC so I relied on it. Trying further is not out of the question but comparing with and without some extra snubbers will allow you judge for yourself if making a difference you prefer.
jphabc54, pfarrell and Salas thank you for the kind words!
jpahbc54, it was manufactured by Protocase, I designed it using their software and a little bit of CAD.
Salas, yes it does have a gentle glow in the dark.
I ordered three, I'm hoping to build at least one more UFSP. All the setup is done so if there is some interest in a group buy just pm me.
jpahbc54, it was manufactured by Protocase, I designed it using their software and a little bit of CAD.
Salas, yes it does have a gentle glow in the dark.
I ordered three, I'm hoping to build at least one more UFSP. All the setup is done so if there is some interest in a group buy just pm me.
Such night glow is subtly inviting indeed. Does this small enough chassis become hotter than warm sinking those shunt regs, or anything has changed in the phono's background quietness after installed in it?
Was already quiet in open air you mentioned but just saying. Side screws bite thread metal through paint so the box has electrical continuity as a whole?
P.S.
pfarrell's starry night pattern drilled lid should allow some red glow to escape from the top in the dark (?). He didn't mention about it though.
Was already quiet in open air you mentioned but just saying. Side screws bite thread metal through paint so the box has electrical continuity as a whole?
P.S.
pfarrell's starry night pattern drilled lid should allow some red glow to escape from the top in the dark (?). He didn't mention about it though.