I'm sure there are, Andrew.
The late great Allen Wright claimed he could hear a difference of 0.001" height difference at the pivot, off the optimal setting for an arm, ... I'm sure I can't. And some people are highly susceptible to picking up absolute phase ... or TT W&F (so only DD TTs will do for them - whereas I can't pick up anything awry with my belt drive! ).Regards,
Andy
It is true.
Some of us can hear subtle differences.
I can distinctly hear belt drive wow and flutter (that sometimes can be mistaken with 2nd distortion) . Normally I have issues like that when setting up lightweight platters with too thick oil.
As for riaa caps and resistors values, IMO they can really be critical and I can tune the high freq response with 10pfarad steps on the high freq cap.
Other components are also quite audible like the 6k8 - 47n combination.
But it seems the most important thing is to keep both channels really close in riaa filter values in order to avoid phase differences between channels.... that is what kills the magic.... I learned that from the late Allen Wright.... and it is true.
Riaa values can drift away from the ideal curve (I saw that in the paradise) and still sound ok if we keep both channels really close.
Some of us can hear subtle differences.
I can distinctly hear belt drive wow and flutter (that sometimes can be mistaken with 2nd distortion) . Normally I have issues like that when setting up lightweight platters with too thick oil.
As for riaa caps and resistors values, IMO they can really be critical and I can tune the high freq response with 10pfarad steps on the high freq cap.
Other components are also quite audible like the 6k8 - 47n combination.
But it seems the most important thing is to keep both channels really close in riaa filter values in order to avoid phase differences between channels.... that is what kills the magic.... I learned that from the late Allen Wright.... and it is true.
Riaa values can drift away from the ideal curve (I saw that in the paradise) and still sound ok if we keep both channels really close.
I am currently experimenting with 2x O-ring belts in place of a flat LP12 belt (I had someone turn a grooved pulley for me) and am very interested in your results.
Why is it, do you think, that 2 belts are better?
Thanks,
Andy
Hmmmm, why, I can not be possible certain, but as I use the Falcon and Roadrunner tach meter, I can tell you that there is a speed variation from needle drag on the platter constant with the dynamics of the music. Using two belts seems to reduce that effect.
This mod was also recommended by HW of VPI and by may VPI users.
Very interesting, vgeorge - all those who scoff at the existence of 'needle drag' should buy a "Roadrunner"!
(Whereas, those of us who know the situation shown by your avatar - where a waterskier doing a rooster-tail can indeed slow the boat - just ignore them. )OK, so 2 belts makes the turning force more 'solid' - so stylus drag has less effect. That says to me that more rubber contacting the platter, tranfers the motor torque better - which seems to me to be comparable to putting fat tyres on the back wheels of a rear-drive car ... compared to thinner wheels - more "rubber on the road"!
The experiment I did with 2x O-rings on the 1 pulley is the preliminary stage of my journey - 2nd stage is to use 2 motors, with 1 belt on each motor pulley. 3rd stage is to use 2 belts on each pulley ... if a long enough pulley (to take 4 grooves) can fit under the LP12 outer platter.
Regards,
Andy
Very interesting, vgeorge - all those who scoff at the existence of 'needle drag' should buy a "Roadrunner"!
OK, so 2 belts makes the turning force more 'solid' - so stylus drag has less effect. That says to me that more rubber contacting the platter, tranfers the motor torque better - which seems to me to be comparable to putting fat tyres on the back wheels of a rear-drive car ... compared to thinner wheels - more "rubber on the road"!
The experiment I did with 2x O-rings on the 1 pulley is the preliminary stage of my journey - 2nd stage is to use 2 motors, with 1 belt on each motor pulley. 3rd stage is to use 2 belts on each pulley ... if a long enough pulley (to take 4 grooves) can fit under the LP12 outer platter.
Regards,
Andy
Nowadays to slow the boat down is nearly impossible with dual GPS and Zero Off computers on water ski boats!
Regarding adding more pulleys and motors, don' t forget that they add up their noise.
What wuld be the advantagge of increasing weight of the platter instead?
Can the Falcon mesure difference whit VPI periphery rings for example?
As I do not have a periphery ring, I can not say.
If you have a Roadrunner you can if there is more or less in average speed variation when doing mods.
I don't know, I asked just in case I need to replace. I use Audio Origami with great success but really no compared vs other oils.
At least with motor oils i know what grade it is actually.
That is never mentioned on "specialty" turntable oils.
Hi Salas et al.
I have only just discovered this thread and I decided to skim read stopping to read the relevant technical discussions and ignore the frequent "off topic tangents". Its taken me 2 days to literally get half way (page 726..). What a MASSIVE thread, yet its obviously been damn worth it..
Its been a joy to follow this evolution into what this JFET phono project has become and to see how others have built and solved their many problems on the way. (all very helpful.. well done everyone.)
This is a class act you guys have put in and Im looking fwd to starting this build.. (after Ive finished the last 50% haha)..
I have a GRACE F9E (MM) - 3.5mV at 1kHz - on a Audiomods Arm (Series 5) on a modified AR Turntable. Currently feeding a Cambridge Audio 651P phono amp (im genuinely not that impressed with this to be honest hence my plan to build my own..)
PreAmp is a Cambridge Audio AZUR 550A (pre out only)
Power Amp is a heavily modified QUAD 405/2 (BF Ludwig + my own mods..) 1V input instead of 0.7V std, true dual mono Nichicon multicap PS...
All feeding AR M6 speakers NOS tweeters, refoamed, recapped, rewired +my mods
On digital (flac) Im getting "exceptional" imaging (many a visitor has been been surprised by this setup) yet when I play the "truth" analogue is just not able to deliver to the same standard... sigh..
Salas please advise the correct biasing setup I need to get this weaklink sorted out once and for all.
TIA
I have only just discovered this thread and I decided to skim read stopping to read the relevant technical discussions and ignore the frequent "off topic tangents". Its taken me 2 days to literally get half way (page 726..). What a MASSIVE thread, yet its obviously been damn worth it..
Its been a joy to follow this evolution into what this JFET phono project has become and to see how others have built and solved their many problems on the way. (all very helpful.. well done everyone.)
This is a class act you guys have put in and Im looking fwd to starting this build.. (after Ive finished the last 50% haha)..
I have a GRACE F9E (MM) - 3.5mV at 1kHz - on a Audiomods Arm (Series 5) on a modified AR Turntable. Currently feeding a Cambridge Audio 651P phono amp (im genuinely not that impressed with this to be honest hence my plan to build my own..)
PreAmp is a Cambridge Audio AZUR 550A (pre out only)
Power Amp is a heavily modified QUAD 405/2 (BF Ludwig + my own mods..) 1V input instead of 0.7V std, true dual mono Nichicon multicap PS...
All feeding AR M6 speakers NOS tweeters, refoamed, recapped, rewired +my mods
On digital (flac) Im getting "exceptional" imaging (many a visitor has been been surprised by this setup) yet when I play the "truth" analogue is just not able to deliver to the same standard... sigh..
Salas please advise the correct biasing setup I need to get this weaklink sorted out once and for all.
TIA
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Thanks. You may set the FSP at 43dB gain for the 3.5mV cartridge. For 103R you would need the extra JFETS and different value few resistors for converting to 63dB later. Get them in matched quad and keep them for when the time comes. Probably the NOS JFETS will be unavailable by then. In any case I would recommend you save up so to skip that price category when ready to upgrade and go directly to AT33PTG/II or AT33Sa series for a higher resolution & more neutral result.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
