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Old 2nd April 2009, 05:50 PM   #11
Dan_ed is offline Dan_ed  United States
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So tell, livemusic, where did you source your mylar ribbon in Isreal?
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Old 3rd April 2009, 04:02 AM   #12
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Hi Clack,

1. What type of knot do you use (Will a square knot do) ?

2. What is the diameter of the silk thread that you recommend (See the attached image) ?

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Old 3rd April 2009, 09:33 AM   #13
Clack is offline Clack  Italy
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Sorry, but I don't know what a square knot is. With my belts I make a knot doing a small circle near the end of the doubled thread and then passing the end of the thread in it. Then I pull and that's it.
About the diameter, it goes accordingly to the sound characteristics of your rig. For example with the VdH DDT II S I prefer a big diameter, that gives more strength on bass and dynamics. With the Fidelity Research MC 201 the thinnest one seems better, giving more opennes to mid and highs.
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Old 3rd April 2009, 11:11 AM   #14
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Location: israel
Originally posted by Dan_ed
So tell, livemusic, where did you source your mylar ribbon in Isreal?
Here in Israel we are probably closer to heaven, but further away from the sources of such exotic supply like holographic mylar type. But thanks to the global web we have a solution for such problems:
BTW, McCormick's shipping prices are absolutely outrageous! I'm just asking my american friends to pick it up when they happen to visit our country.
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Old 3rd April 2009, 11:54 AM   #15
Dan_ed is offline Dan_ed  United States
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Well, I'm glad for you that you have a means to source mylar.

It is interesting that someone from Isreal approached me through the Galibier website about sending them some mylar. Which I did to the tune of $18 and never heard from them again. I'm sure this person must have been in a very bad situation since that $18 meant so much to them. I'm still trying to find a way to count it against my income tax as a charitable contribution.

But I can assure every one that I will let the members of the Galibier forum that there are such people lurking about.
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Old 3rd April 2009, 01:37 PM   #16
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Location: israel
Well, some people think the DIY communuty are mostly cheap tinkerers..
McCormick wanted to charge me 50+ bucks for shipment of single coil of tape. I found it ridiculous and asked a friend to bring the tape along with him from US. Anyway, I believe we'd better stick wich technical matters and instead of chasing the guy who stole your $18. Just in case you are asking - it was not me.
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Old 3rd April 2009, 02:49 PM   #17
Dan_ed is offline Dan_ed  United States
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This guy said he has a Platine Verdier, goes by the name Gid, and his email address is

I hope he gets deluged with spam after I post his email here. :-) I could probably dig up his street address as well.

Back OT,
using the mylar to create a tighter coupling between the motor and platter does work well, but may actually cause more problems if used with the wrong motor. Like one that has cogging. You will impart this to the platter.

Another issue with using mylar is that it does hold static electricity very, very well. I find it necessary to use my carbon fiber brush at the start of each play session. It is amazing sometimes how much dust comes off. That dust has a pronounced negative impact on platter drive.

If one does get this mylar belt working for them I can suggest next looking at speed control. Now that you have this kind of tight coupling you will be able to pick out those tiny differences with speed fluctuations.
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Old 3rd April 2009, 03:11 PM   #18
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Location: israel
Glad we are back on technical track.
I use Teres Signature II motor; do you think battery power option may bring worthwhile improvement? Electricity net in my area is fairly stable.
I have no problem with statics, because I live close to the sea (high humiduty). I've learned from experience, that it is crucial to keep the belt clean; I clean mine with alcohol every month or so.
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Old 3rd April 2009, 03:31 PM   #19
Dan_ed is offline Dan_ed  United States
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Most everyone I know who has moved to battery power with the Maxon motors has found it to be quieter, so you may also get some improvement with the battery option. I believe Doug has also reported that he gets better results with a battery of a certain internal resistance because of the input resistance of the Teres circuitry. I can't remember the specifics but I'm sure one could find it with a search at A'gon.
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Old 3rd April 2009, 04:06 PM   #20
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Geetings from Galibier,

There are quite a few variables involved, and this entire belt "thing" needs to be considered as a part of a complete system - comprising the motor, bearing, lubrication (viscosity), and platter mass.

Dan made an interesting post in the Analog section of Audiogon about turntables that employ some form of braking in their bearing. The word friction was used by the original poster, but what he was trying to talk about "drag" ... for example the resistance to turning imparted by viscuous oil.

In theory, this drag can "simulate" platter mass in many ways, by swamping the effects of stylus drag on speed stability.

Sometimes, the theory works as expected ...

Here at Galibier, we like thin oil and siff belts. In other turntable designs with looser tolerances in their bearings, thin oil is a liablity (for several reasons), but we've found (much like the Micro Seiki users), that thin oil in our rigs imparts a more dynamic presentation with no sonic penalty.

The important thing to keep in mind is that there's an ideal solution for every configuration, and parameters need to be balanced against each other.

As far as belts are concerned, the noisier the motor is (pulses, etc.), the more filtering is required in the form of a compliant belt.

We use a very quiet motor at Galibier, so we benefit greatly from Mylar belts. In experimentation with garden-variety AC motors (using sophisticated controllers), there was still too much pulsing coming out of the drive system, and a Mylar belt was more of a liability than a benefit.

In a perfect world, we'd have the ideal direct drive turntable with a perfectly smooth and quite motor.

Faling that, we need to experiment with ideal solutions for a given architecture. If you change one parameter (belt material, oil, whatever) you need to reevaluate everything).

Thom @ Galibier
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