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Old 5th October 2007, 06:41 AM   #1
atavid is offline atavid  Australia
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Default Revive Ariston RD11S

Like the previous post i have been wanting to breath some new life into my old RD11s with Rega RB300.
I'm not up to the extremes of adding new sub chassis or fitting Linn type power supplies etc,but could cope with adding damping/bracing etc to suggested locations,changing the base plate,mabye even changing the top plate.Ive already changed the original(corroding)steel spring bolts to stainless steel variety.I've also noticed lately that the motor makes a cogging sort of noise,similar to an old ceiling fan(not as loud of course)Any suggestions on a fix for this,and any detailed suggestions for just tweaking the whole unit ?
I've searched the web and these are the most common mods i've seen that seem "doable" for the average person.How good they are is another question that perhaps you could comment on!!

Change base board to thick MDF ?
Change all the bolts/nuts/screws to stainless steel variety?
Add nylon washers(aka tap washers) between lock nut and flat washers on springs?
Add some sort of tight plastic tubing/shrink wrap over the spring bolts?
Add foam washers under the rubber spring washers?
Add corner bracings to plinth?
Change the thin pressed metal cross bracing plate that holds the electricals with something more solid eg 5-8mm brass/aluminium/stainless plate?
Add some sort of damping(bitumous)material to the sub chassis,under the top plate and around the plinth sides?
Change the top plate to a different material???
Try and damp the platter (somehow)?
Use a Linn felt platter mat in place of the original rubber mat?
Change oil in bearing to EP90 gear oil,or use a moly based oil to reduce the effects of wear??
There are probably some others i saw,but cant remember them at this time.
I would be most appreciative if people could comment on the usefullness/effectiveness of any of the above mods for the Ariston RD11s.
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Old 5th October 2007, 09:22 AM   #2
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

try this thread : ariston RD11, Linn Vector-like DIY

/sreten.
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Old 5th October 2007, 03:10 PM   #3
atavid is offline atavid  Australia
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Thanks for the link sreten,lots of good stuff there to try and digest,but also getting a little too esoteric for my humble abilities and even humbler wallet.I was hoping someone could tell which of the mods i listed actually make an improvement to the RD11s as opposed to those that have been tried and deemed not worthwhile.
I know for example there is a lot of argument about damping(or too much damping).To what extent should which components on the TT be damped?What in peoples experience is the best damping material to be used throughout the TT ?
Is MDF the best material to use on the baseplate?
These are the sort of details i was hoping to find advice about on the forum.Perhaps like me, a lot of RD11s owners are only now starting to mod their decks and that info has not really been compiled and circulated yet??
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Old 5th October 2007, 03:40 PM   #4
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Poor OP - a lot of ideas and confusion for you there.


Anyway, whether the P3 is the limiting factor and whether this arm is better than that aside, I do think that a denon DL110 or 160 would be a good choice. A MM preamp will drive it no problem and you get some of the benefits of both MM and MC.

I don't remember reading what preamp you were using?

Fran
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Old 9th October 2007, 02:31 PM   #5
atavid is offline atavid  Australia
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Default Ariston RD11s dodgy design

Well,since no one else is going to continue this thread i hope you dont mind if i do.
Ive now pulled apart some of my Ariston RD11s and i notice that the sub chassis design is such that it appears that its application in the RD11s is more an afterthought (or use of spare parts that fitted) rather than a subchassis specifically designed for the RD11s.
It seems that the subchassis used was originally designed for another model as it has another armboard mounting already pre drilled into the sub chassis.
The armboard mounting for the RD11s has been tacked(spot welded on) to the side of the original subchassis.The design of the original sub chassis was quite symmetrical in its shape and its spring suspension points.The tacked on part of course throws out the symmetry,and probably the balance of the sub chassis,hence the two different rate suspension springs, and probably accounts for the extreme difficulty in setting the thing up.
Makes you wonder if the TT could have been that much better had a sub chassis been specifically designed for the RD11s.Makes you also wonder if the relatively pleasant music this TT produces is more by chance than by design.
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Old 9th October 2007, 04:09 PM   #6
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Default Re: Ariston RD11s dodgy design

Quote:
Originally posted by atavid
Well,since no one else is going to continue this thread i hope you dont mind if i do.
Ive now pulled apart some of my Ariston RD11s and i notice that the sub chassis design is such that it appears that its application in the RD11s is more an afterthought (or use of spare parts that fitted) rather than a subchassis specifically designed for the RD11s.
It seems that the subchassis used was originally designed for another model as it has another armboard mounting already pre drilled into the sub chassis.
The armboard mounting for the RD11s has been tacked(spot welded on) to the side of the original subchassis.The design of the original sub chassis was quite symmetrical in its shape and its spring suspension points.The tacked on part of course throws out the symmetry,and probably the balance of the sub chassis,hence the two different rate suspension springs, and probably accounts for the extreme difficulty in setting the thing up.
Makes you wonder if the TT could have been that much better had a sub chassis been specifically designed for the RD11s.Makes you also wonder if the relatively pleasant music this TT produces is more by chance than by design.
Some good thoughts here, but I notice that some of the recent posts address concerns raised by the original thread starter 3 yrs ago rather than yours. Perhaps it would be better to just start a new thread rather than resurrecting a long expired one - just to avoid these sorts of issues? I'm quite interested, but don't have a lot to add at the moment.

I'm not really at all familiar with the Ariston table, but perhaps the motor ticking has to do with the bearings becoming mis-aligned over time or perhaps they are just worn... Other possibilities include foreign material stuck to the motor pulley. (if ticking is just with the belt on..) Perhaps the bearings just need to be lubricated. Ariston probably recommends a lubricant for the motor, if not one of several oils sold online for turntable lube ought to be ok. (Check google or ask here though before just doing this.)

I've heard the allegation before that the RD11 was bodged together from existing pieces, but I'm not sure what you could do to improve that situation, possibly you could fabricate your own subchassis using balsa or similar materials and the original Ariston main bearing. Using modern epoxy adhesives it might be possible to build something light and strong that works..
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Old 9th October 2007, 08:18 PM   #7
atavid is offline atavid  Australia
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Sorry,i didn't know if i should start a new thread or add to this one as i could only find one other thread discussing the Ariston RD11s.I thought folks interested in this TT might be following this thread.
It's somehow a little disappointing to think the TT was just a collection of previous models' parts,but that was probably a commercial reality .
I started looking into the cost of some lightweight carbon fibre after reading the other post i referred to,but we are talking serious dollars here in Australia for even a small 'sub chassis size' piece, plus more $$$ to machine it. An expensive experiment if it doesnt work.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'balsa'.I assume you are referring to some sort of sandwich material with balsa wood in its centre?
I'm wondering if just taking some weight off the existing subchassis would help.It is rather heavy, and the springs just hold up with the heavy Rega arm.
I havn't yet taken off the motor,but you are right,perhaps a little lubricant on each end will help there.My turntable was never used a lot even though i have had it for about 24 years,so i don't expect the bearings/bushes to be worn out.The noise is more 'electrical' than 'mechanical',so i dont know how successful lubrication will be,but its worth a try.
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Old 12th October 2007, 11:36 PM   #8
atavid is offline atavid  Australia
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Default Modifying RD11s

I've had more time to delve deeper into the RD11s and i notice that where that second piece of pressed steel is spot welded to the main subchassis there is a fair amount of flex between the two pieces.
That does not seem like a good thing to me so i have applied araldite at the edges trying to get it to run down and set between the two pieces and make it (hopefully) a little more rigid.
Another thing i notice is that the rubber grommets that isolate the motor from the top plate are not very soft or pliable.Should they be? Would it help if they were a softer compound?
Also the flat rubber gasket fitted between the motor and its mounting plate looks (from the visible edge at least) to be going brittle and hard with obvious cracks around the outside edge.
Should i look at perhaps replacing this gasket, again with something softer?
The whole plinth and top plate assembly is like a bell.One tap and it rings away quite badly.I notice Ariston have applied some sound deadener to the inside of the plinth,but it is very minimal and obviously ineffectual.I have some 'spray on' rubberised sound deadener and am going to mask up the underside of the top plate in key areas and spray both it and the inside of the plinth(fingers crossed).
Lastly i want to lubricate the motor bushes.The pulley end is easy enough to get at but the other end seems to be sealed with some kind of nylon device that appears to only be removable from inside the motor housing.Has anyone had experience with this?Is there some way of getting lubricant to that end bush?
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Old 13th October 2007, 02:04 PM   #9
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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All good ideas, yes I think the grommets probably ought to be a little softer..
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Old 13th October 2007, 09:05 PM   #10
atavid is offline atavid  Australia
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Thanks for the encouragement Kevin.I dont think anyone else is still following this thread.
I will let you know how i progress.
I'm going out this morning to see if i can find some softer grommets.
The araldite between the plates has set now, and it has eliminated the flex.Still havnt had the guts to spray the underside of the top plate,but i guess i will do that later today.
By the way my first name is Kevin too !
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