Am I the only one that finds that at least 1/4 of the albums you buy are freakin' warped? Even if you shell out the extra cash for a sealed copy. Some that were stored horizontally can be taco'd and some stored vertically have an outer lip that sticks up making the first track worthless.
Is there nothing one can do to correct it?
Is there nothing one can do to correct it?
I understand one way of solving this problem is as follows. Get a glazier (glass retailer) to cut you two pieces of glass that are reasonable heavy. They need to be a bit over 12" square i.e. just bigger than the LP. Then clean them and the album and lay the warped LP between the two glass sheets. Place it in the sun to warm it up. Then allow the whole set up to cool very slowly before removing the record. I read this many years ago and I understand that this will work but in truth I have not tried it myself. I'm sure you'll get more ideas and helpful replies as it must be a common prob.
Another solution which is entirely dependant on the size of your turntable platter is to arrange some form of mechanical clamp that will hold the record onto the mat with more than mere gravity. There are designs with a weight or screw attachment in the centre but this is less effective at the edges where the problem is bad. Some t/table won't apprecite a weight either. I'm lucky enough to have a t/table where I can attach a thin band to the platter that can be arranged to grip the edge of the LP and flatten it but that is just one of those nice co-incidences that occasionally go your way.
If your post is up while Europe/ North America are asleep you may get better response later. Good luck I look forward to some other solutions.
Another solution which is entirely dependant on the size of your turntable platter is to arrange some form of mechanical clamp that will hold the record onto the mat with more than mere gravity. There are designs with a weight or screw attachment in the centre but this is less effective at the edges where the problem is bad. Some t/table won't apprecite a weight either. I'm lucky enough to have a t/table where I can attach a thin band to the platter that can be arranged to grip the edge of the LP and flatten it but that is just one of those nice co-incidences that occasionally go your way.
If your post is up while Europe/ North America are asleep you may get better response later. Good luck I look forward to some other solutions.
Are we talking new, used, hi end, low end? My all time favorites are Grunt records from the '70s- Starship. They seemed to be exploring how little vinyl they could use to make an album. You can actually bend them about in half with no damage, but they're as warped today as they were 30 years ago. One cure is to get two pieces of plate glass, about 12" square. You sandwich the record, then put it in the oven and gently heat it at a low temp. Pull the sandwich out and let it cool for a day. A bit of searching should get you more details on the technique. I also wonder about your turntable setup. Even though it dismays me, I can play just about anything. I've never had a record so warped it would skip or be unplayable. A trick- sometimes a 3-point mat will average out the warp a bit.
edit- I see Jon beat me to the punch!
edit- I see Jon beat me to the punch!
Mostly new, some of them discontinued and some current releases. Not hi end though, I'm just a technician
Believe it or not, I've actually had better luck from e-bay than from local record stores. Though paying for shipping makes them a little more expensive. Plus the whole being patient for it to arrive thing.It will play most of them fine. No problems with them skipping, but some of them make a crackle sound when going over a bump (ones with warped edges when playing track 1). Also, I'm worried about the record or cartridge/stylus wearing out pre-maturely.
I'll try this glass method you guys are talking about. Not expecting them to come out perfect, but any improvement would be great with some of them. Assuming the record should be as clean as possible before doing this? I could imagine dirt becoming embeded when heating. And of course I'll practice with ones that don't matter first.
Someone was making a super expensive device that was supposed to take the warps out of records. From what I could tell it was kind of like a modified waffle iron that would clamp the record flat and then heat it to a precise temp and then cool it slowly under clamping pressure. That makes me think that both Jon and Conrad are on the right track.
Let us know how it goes.
DaveM
Let us know how it goes.
DaveM
Furutech Warpenator
Hey Furutech makes something like an upright waffle iron specifically for this that works. If you have a local audio club / society it may be worth your while to check them out for fellow vinylphiles. These are not cheap but if you can either find someone willing to share or maybe a club purchase then everyone could benifit......
Enjoy your music!
Cheers
Furutech DFV-1 LP Flattener
Hey Furutech makes something like an upright waffle iron specifically for this that works. If you have a local audio club / society it may be worth your while to check them out for fellow vinylphiles. These are not cheap but if you can either find someone willing to share or maybe a club purchase then everyone could benifit......
Enjoy your music!
Cheers
Furutech DFV-1 LP Flattener
I've experimented with the glass sandwich method with very limited success. All tests have been done with vinyl 12" LPs.
I used 1/4" plate glass, two pieces large enough to completely cover the records. The hot summer sun works OK for slightly flattening a very broad and less defined warp. I've been able to flatten a couple records just enough so that they'll at least play without the stylus jumping out of the groove. The hot sun method will not work for 'ruffled' and more heavily warped records.
With the more heavily warped records I used the oven. At temperatures approaching 180-190F the vinyl will soften enough to flatten. One badly warped Huey Lewis record was flattened enough so that the stylus on my Beogram TX-2 could get over and into the grooves. However, when the warps were flattened, the vinyl was also 'pushed out', creating a bad off-center effect. So instead of the stylus jumping up and off the record, now it's thrown sideways so violently that it jumps out and skips.
My next test will be using a large drymount press. This is basically a huge "waffle iron" but smooth surfaced. I'm not expecting much better results, but I'll give it a shot and report back if it works.
I used 1/4" plate glass, two pieces large enough to completely cover the records. The hot summer sun works OK for slightly flattening a very broad and less defined warp. I've been able to flatten a couple records just enough so that they'll at least play without the stylus jumping out of the groove. The hot sun method will not work for 'ruffled' and more heavily warped records.
With the more heavily warped records I used the oven. At temperatures approaching 180-190F the vinyl will soften enough to flatten. One badly warped Huey Lewis record was flattened enough so that the stylus on my Beogram TX-2 could get over and into the grooves. However, when the warps were flattened, the vinyl was also 'pushed out', creating a bad off-center effect. So instead of the stylus jumping up and off the record, now it's thrown sideways so violently that it jumps out and skips.
My next test will be using a large drymount press. This is basically a huge "waffle iron" but smooth surfaced. I'm not expecting much better results, but I'll give it a shot and report back if it works.
cactuscowboy said:
Hi, your dry mounting press sounds like it might be a good idea. I flatten my photo prints this way and one of the tricks is after you take it out of the press while it is still warm/hot you lay it down on a sheet of glass with another 1/4" thick (for weight) sheet of glass on top and wait until all the heat is dissapated.
Good luck!
Some thirty years ago I worked a few summers in vinyl pressing and distribution plant here in the Netherlands. I have been present during a few shrink wrapping sessions for LP's. This was done outside the plant.
The shrink wrap, not a psychiatric treatment by the way, is what it says: it is a plastic tube, bag in human speak, that is shrunk.
How do you shrink plastic? Yes, by heaing it!
I can imagine that there will be a temperature that vinyl does not warp and foil does shrink. Is that important to the shrinkwrapper? I do not think so, when the truckdriver and the pressing company assitant(me) are waiting. And under pressure and higher temperature everything goes faster.
Since then I know that a closed shrink wrap only tells you that the record has not been been touched since put in its sleeve. It is certainly not a guarentee that it is not warped.
Todays special pressings sometimes are in a sealed bag. These bags are closed by glue (without a thermal after treatment I assume. (Cisco, Classic records and alike)
Regards,
E&E
The shrink wrap, not a psychiatric treatment by the way, is what it says: it is a plastic tube, bag in human speak, that is shrunk.
How do you shrink plastic? Yes, by heaing it!
I can imagine that there will be a temperature that vinyl does not warp and foil does shrink. Is that important to the shrinkwrapper? I do not think so, when the truckdriver and the pressing company assitant(me) are waiting. And under pressure and higher temperature everything goes faster.
Since then I know that a closed shrink wrap only tells you that the record has not been been touched since put in its sleeve. It is certainly not a guarentee that it is not warped.
Todays special pressings sometimes are in a sealed bag. These bags are closed by glue (without a thermal after treatment I assume. (Cisco, Classic records and alike)
Regards,
E&E
Jeb-D. said:
!st I did this only on a LP that was so warped it was unplayable as a friend sat on it. So if it would be damaged no big loss.
The setting of the iron was the lowest I think, the LP between blank paper.
After heating it up I let it cool off under pressure of books on flat surface. Later in increased the temp of the iron as the effect was not enough. The process left an imprint on the LP but not audible. I could play it gain.
I didn't read all the posts so this may be redundant.
First, I heard that factories never used shrink wrap, they used cellophane. A hair dryer will cause shrink wrap to shrink, cellophane will not respond.
Secondly, the trick in the sun will work, to a certain extent. I also put two severely warped records between two marble slabs for 3 years with only normal room temperature cylcing. Didn't help a bit. Even with heat you probably won't get rid of the whole warp.
One issue of importance is your turntable mat. If you are not using a mat with a dish in the center then your warps will seem much worse than they really are. Don't use one of those flat felt disco mats.
Look at the mat on a Technics 1200. It has a dish in the center.
Also, many edge warps are not from being stored vertically. They are caused by unscrupulous employees in the pressing plant twisting the slag from the record.
Buying a sealed record is usually a mistake. They are often factory rewraps and/or defects. A cutout is often a factory second.
I have a terrible warp problem also. Level your turntable with a bullseye level and set your antiskate with a grooveless band.
If your turntable is set up properly warps can be acceptable. Mark
First, I heard that factories never used shrink wrap, they used cellophane. A hair dryer will cause shrink wrap to shrink, cellophane will not respond.
Secondly, the trick in the sun will work, to a certain extent. I also put two severely warped records between two marble slabs for 3 years with only normal room temperature cylcing. Didn't help a bit. Even with heat you probably won't get rid of the whole warp.
One issue of importance is your turntable mat. If you are not using a mat with a dish in the center then your warps will seem much worse than they really are. Don't use one of those flat felt disco mats.
Look at the mat on a Technics 1200. It has a dish in the center.
Also, many edge warps are not from being stored vertically. They are caused by unscrupulous employees in the pressing plant twisting the slag from the record.
Buying a sealed record is usually a mistake. They are often factory rewraps and/or defects. A cutout is often a factory second.
I have a terrible warp problem also. Level your turntable with a bullseye level and set your antiskate with a grooveless band.
If your turntable is set up properly warps can be acceptable. Mark
i've been investigating this very topic this week with a fair amount of success.
the worst culprits for warping are shrink wrapped vinyl in gatefold sleeves, notably those sleeves where they close one side of the gatefold by gluing it internally so the record can only be inserted into one side.
i received two of these this week and both of them showed a 10mm warp. it would seem the glued gatefold isn't very compliant so pushes back into the record.
my fix was relatively simple.
my deck now has an acrylic platter, i still have the old heavy glass rega platter it came with. importanly the acrylic platter has a label recess...
fill the bath with boiling water, about 10" seems to do. place the rega platter in a bin bag and submerge it forcing all the air out,and leave it for 10 minutes.
remove the platter, dry it if required and run upstairs to sandwich your bent vinyl between it and the acrylic platter. cover it with a fleece or thermal blanket and leave it until stone cold.
then return and repeat it all again with the vinyl flipped over on the other side.
the label recess seems to help it get flatter than it would normally, and i have got both records, one 160gm the other 200gm down to about 2mm of warp, which is perfectly acceptable.
when i say perfectly acceptable it's absolutely bloody shoddy that new vinyl should be in this state at all.... but i'm happy with the results.
and it does actually make it sound better,none of that rise and fall bass that occurs with the effect on VTA from the warp.
the worst culprits for warping are shrink wrapped vinyl in gatefold sleeves, notably those sleeves where they close one side of the gatefold by gluing it internally so the record can only be inserted into one side.
i received two of these this week and both of them showed a 10mm warp. it would seem the glued gatefold isn't very compliant so pushes back into the record.
my fix was relatively simple.
my deck now has an acrylic platter, i still have the old heavy glass rega platter it came with. importanly the acrylic platter has a label recess...
fill the bath with boiling water, about 10" seems to do. place the rega platter in a bin bag and submerge it forcing all the air out,and leave it for 10 minutes.
remove the platter, dry it if required and run upstairs to sandwich your bent vinyl between it and the acrylic platter. cover it with a fleece or thermal blanket and leave it until stone cold.
then return and repeat it all again with the vinyl flipped over on the other side.
the label recess seems to help it get flatter than it would normally, and i have got both records, one 160gm the other 200gm down to about 2mm of warp, which is perfectly acceptable.
when i say perfectly acceptable it's absolutely bloody shoddy that new vinyl should be in this state at all.... but i'm happy with the results.
and it does actually make it sound better,none of that rise and fall bass that occurs with the effect on VTA from the warp.
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