Sorry, I'm sure this has been asked a million times, but I can't seem to find much good info. Anyhow, the age of turntables was back when I was a yongster. I just inherited a turntable(an old technics SL1200) from my grandma. I designed a preamp for it which works damn well. All tube, but no audible noise or hum.
With that said, I have no clue on the general practices of getting the best performance vinyl reproduction! Any recommended information, websites or products would be really appreciated.
With that said, I have no clue on the general practices of getting the best performance vinyl reproduction! Any recommended information, websites or products would be really appreciated.
Look at any of the homebrew record cleaner threads here, there is a wealth of information on cleaning LP's and a machine is far superior to any other approach. (I just knuckled under and built one early this year.)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39608&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Details of several diy cleaners including mine can be found on the above thread. Mine cost about $80 total and more judicious shopping could get that down considerably.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39608&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
Details of several diy cleaners including mine can be found on the above thread. Mine cost about $80 total and more judicious shopping could get that down considerably.
Hi. Some cartridges and stylus profiles are better than others regarding surface noise inmunity.
A very good one is Stanton 500 v.3, actually a DJ cart that tracks on the heavier side (2/5 grams)... a lot of people at the Vinyl Engine were surprised with the sound quality and gusto.
It´s a very cheap cart, utterly rugged, and sounds good.
And if you can find a vintage version -champagne enamelled body-better still. Check out garage sales, flkea markets etc.
There are lots of different styli to that cart. Some of them NOS, some of them new, some of them of aftermarket manufacturers...
Styli for Pickering v15 cartridge (different manufacturer, same cart) fits Stanton 500´s too.
Sometimes an spherical tip works wonders with old vinyl, with less surface noise than an elliptical.
But sometimes is the inverse!! That´s, maybe, because some elliptical tips ride on an ¨untouched¨ part of the groove .
Check out the old Shure M44 too. Some folks said it´s a ¨best kept secret¨.
A very good one is Stanton 500 v.3, actually a DJ cart that tracks on the heavier side (2/5 grams)... a lot of people at the Vinyl Engine were surprised with the sound quality and gusto.
It´s a very cheap cart, utterly rugged, and sounds good.
And if you can find a vintage version -champagne enamelled body-better still. Check out garage sales, flkea markets etc.
There are lots of different styli to that cart. Some of them NOS, some of them new, some of them of aftermarket manufacturers...
Styli for Pickering v15 cartridge (different manufacturer, same cart) fits Stanton 500´s too.
Sometimes an spherical tip works wonders with old vinyl, with less surface noise than an elliptical.
But sometimes is the inverse!! That´s, maybe, because some elliptical tips ride on an ¨untouched¨ part of the groove .
Check out the old Shure M44 too. Some folks said it´s a ¨best kept secret¨.
another tip -no pun intended-...
...is to fiddle with the capacitance/resistance that loads the cartridge. If you have made the phono preamp, It´ll be easier for you to modify a little the suggested values -each cartridge manufacturer has them in the datasheets- to obtain the desired effect.
I´m tempted to use some variable air capacitors -AFAIK, old radio ítems-, and some variable resistors too, at the input of my preamp. I haven´t done it yet, but maybe it´ll be an useful idea for you.
Regarding wet cleaning of vinyl ¨on the cheap¨, my suggestion is to use some photograph wetting agent (commonly, a very pure form of non-ionic detergent).
You must dilute a tiny part in distilled water. Then, scrub your disk with a Disc Doctor brush or similar (you can make a diy one, very effective, using some polipropylene fiber strip that aluminum frame window makers use, as sealant, in the sliding parts of the windows...).
If you put the lp in vertical position when it´s still wet, the surfactant/water mix will do a better job of removing the ¨soil¨. Gravity helps here. Due to the low surface tension of the liquid, crud will flow slowly downwards. If you put a white dish below the lp, you´ll be amazed because of the colour of the water... garage finds have lot of years of filth on it´s grooves.
Then, you must rinse carefully your lp´s with distilled water. Let them air dry in a quiet place, in vertical position. If you are in a hurry, you can dry them with some kleenex, but I have noticed that, in general, drying sheets (whatever you use) leave residues.
Best vacuum. Next best: evaporation.
My two cents.
...is to fiddle with the capacitance/resistance that loads the cartridge. If you have made the phono preamp, It´ll be easier for you to modify a little the suggested values -each cartridge manufacturer has them in the datasheets- to obtain the desired effect.
I´m tempted to use some variable air capacitors -AFAIK, old radio ítems-, and some variable resistors too, at the input of my preamp. I haven´t done it yet, but maybe it´ll be an useful idea for you.
Regarding wet cleaning of vinyl ¨on the cheap¨, my suggestion is to use some photograph wetting agent (commonly, a very pure form of non-ionic detergent).
You must dilute a tiny part in distilled water. Then, scrub your disk with a Disc Doctor brush or similar (you can make a diy one, very effective, using some polipropylene fiber strip that aluminum frame window makers use, as sealant, in the sliding parts of the windows...).
If you put the lp in vertical position when it´s still wet, the surfactant/water mix will do a better job of removing the ¨soil¨. Gravity helps here. Due to the low surface tension of the liquid, crud will flow slowly downwards. If you put a white dish below the lp, you´ll be amazed because of the colour of the water... garage finds have lot of years of filth on it´s grooves.
Then, you must rinse carefully your lp´s with distilled water. Let them air dry in a quiet place, in vertical position. If you are in a hurry, you can dry them with some kleenex, but I have noticed that, in general, drying sheets (whatever you use) leave residues.
Best vacuum. Next best: evaporation.
My two cents.
Odd you should mention it. That was the cartridge that was in the turntable when I got it. However, the stylus was no good and I had no luck finding a replacement. So, I got a different cartridge. I still do have the M44 though, if you have a stylus to recommend?
Have you tried rubbing alcohol? Some people say it works well, and it evaporates relatively quickly.
Now that my pre-amp is de-bugged, I'm pretty happy with the sound of my cartridge/ pre-amp combo. Most of the LP's I have from the 80's have very little noise, but my older stuff needs a good washin'.
I think -but I don´t know really- that rubbing alcohol is the same as isopropanol, or isopropyl alcohol. For really dirty stuff is good, but there are some complaints about it attacking the plasticizers in the vinyl itself. I don´t know if someone done some test about it, or if it´s only another urban legend.
Isopropanol comes in various grades of purity. I have used what I can get at the electronics store (usually employed to clean PCB´s).
It´s better to use it diluted in distilled water, or added to the mix mentioned before.
I think that the different diy brews made to clean vinyl are more or less a hit or miss affair: what works good for you, maybe does not work best for another guy.
If you buy a lot of used vinyl, flea market ie., your needs are very different to the ones of the guy who buys mint vinyl. You need heavy fuel, hard rubbing and patience. So, a more powerful mixture is needed.
People with vacuum machines, or mint vinyl, can opt for a more decaffeinated version. Check out, cause there are lots of recipes in the net.
Concerning Shure M44, that was an inmensely popular cartridge in the 60´s and 70´s. Versatile and dependable, it can accomodate different styli, even 78 rpm ones.
According to Steve Hoffman ears, is a very nice cart to play beaten up vinyl (Steve is a mastering engineer of vast knowledge, check out http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/)
According to my ears too: sounds hot -has lots of output-, very ¨analoguey¨, with some of a vintage feel.
If you put there a n55e stylus (elliptical), you´ll have an engaging and reasonably accurate cartridge for very little money. It will sound very good in your Technics, because is a good match to the tonearm...
Another option would be the n44e stylus -another elliptical-, or a N44 7 stylus (conical, medium tracking force).
The original n44c stylus, originated in the sixties, is a heavier tracking animal, with almost 10 mv output: dj stuff that can be used at home if one is careful.
Check out the Shure site, because that cartridge is compatible with various needles.
And enjoy!!
Isopropanol comes in various grades of purity. I have used what I can get at the electronics store (usually employed to clean PCB´s).
It´s better to use it diluted in distilled water, or added to the mix mentioned before.
I think that the different diy brews made to clean vinyl are more or less a hit or miss affair: what works good for you, maybe does not work best for another guy.
If you buy a lot of used vinyl, flea market ie., your needs are very different to the ones of the guy who buys mint vinyl. You need heavy fuel, hard rubbing and patience. So, a more powerful mixture is needed.
People with vacuum machines, or mint vinyl, can opt for a more decaffeinated version. Check out, cause there are lots of recipes in the net.
Concerning Shure M44, that was an inmensely popular cartridge in the 60´s and 70´s. Versatile and dependable, it can accomodate different styli, even 78 rpm ones.
According to Steve Hoffman ears, is a very nice cart to play beaten up vinyl (Steve is a mastering engineer of vast knowledge, check out http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/)
According to my ears too: sounds hot -has lots of output-, very ¨analoguey¨, with some of a vintage feel.
If you put there a n55e stylus (elliptical), you´ll have an engaging and reasonably accurate cartridge for very little money. It will sound very good in your Technics, because is a good match to the tonearm...
Another option would be the n44e stylus -another elliptical-, or a N44 7 stylus (conical, medium tracking force).
The original n44c stylus, originated in the sixties, is a heavier tracking animal, with almost 10 mv output: dj stuff that can be used at home if one is careful.
Check out the Shure site, because that cartridge is compatible with various needles.
And enjoy!!
So far most of this thread has been concerned with cleaning up the source, LPs, but some "pops" won't yield to cleaning (i.e. old record labels from unsold stock, recycled, ground up and put back into the vinyl and repressed.) So 20/30 yrs ago there was some electronic processing available. BURWEN produced both an impulse noise reducer (clicks and pops) and a steady state (hiss) reducer. But there were others too. eBay perhaps? The BURWEN schematics are on the web but not very clear. There were others available commercially (Garrard UK) and at least one DIY project published in the US and another two the UK in the 80's. These were all at the analogue/small signal stage. These days of course they can be treated digitally if you transfer them to CD. Plenty of appropriate soft ware around for that.
-posted by Jonathan Bright-
Yes, I remember, when I was a child, of some tv documental about a machine of that ilk... when a pop was detected, a light in the front panel indicated that...
But I believe that is better to eliminate noise, as much as possible, in a first instance. Then, of course, some processing can be added.
There are various advantages of optimizing the signal at the origin: styli and disks last longer -dust is abrassive-; and cleaning is a non substractive process.
Instead, electronic processing -analogue or digital- is substractive per se, and something always is lost in the processing.
But judiciously applied, is very effective.
I forgot something, Jeb: You must align your cartridge, to obtain a good geometrical environment for the tonearm/stylus system to do a good job.
A well aligned stylus gives a better reproduction. And you´ll get a better rendition of inner tracks -those nasty ones close to the label-.
For that task, a protractor is needed. Some of the downloadable examples in the net are adequate: http://www.vinylengine.com/manuals_tonearm_protractors.shtml
For japanese standard tonearms, maybe the Stevenson alignment would be the most appropiate. But you can check out whatever you like.
I have an alignment protractor. However, my tonearm headshell combo seems on the short side when using the protractor. I had to mount the cartridge in the most extended position to get it to align. It seems the Stevenson was meant for those limited arms, so I'll give it a go to verify. The sound is pretty consistant from first to last as it is though.
Thanks for you input!
the dirty looks
jeb, concerning vinyl cleaning check out this:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=114716
jeb, concerning vinyl cleaning check out this:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=114716
Wish I had an SEM too. I've recently gotten back into vinyl, and have been doing a lot of cleaning of rather old discs. At first I used the formula from the web with water, isopropyl alcohol, and a bit of wetting agent. I thought it worked ok with an old Watts record washing brush and/or an old style Discwasher brush. Then I started using a lab detergent (Alconox) with the brush, followed by a rinse, followed by final drying with the Discwasher brush. Big difference in the number and amplitude of the pops. Now, if I'm going to clean a record at all, it gets the full detergent and rinse treatment. IMO, it's bad to let anything, even distilled water, dry on a record. It needs to be actively removed with something like the Discwasher brush or a vacuum.
This is just an armchair thought- does the overload recovery characteristic of the preamp affect what pops and clicks sound like? I know they can have pretty high amplitudes and if the preamp has a recovery or slew problem, it might make them more audible.
I also suspect some clicks are static and a conductive mat might help. Also, don't blame the record for electrical noises caused by refrigerators and such!
This is just an armchair thought- does the overload recovery characteristic of the preamp affect what pops and clicks sound like? I know they can have pretty high amplitudes and if the preamp has a recovery or slew problem, it might make them more audible.
I also suspect some clicks are static and a conductive mat might help. Also, don't blame the record for electrical noises caused by refrigerators and such!
Ropey arms with lots of high Q resonances and rattling bearings plugged into RIAA pre-amplifiers that overload easily exacerbate clicks and bangs. Valve RIAA pre-amplifiers with passive equalisation are good, as are simple unipivot arms. And yes, you can make a unipivot arm without a workshop full of machine tools (although as a confirmed tool junkie, it's a good excuse to buy a lathe). Balsa is a very good lightweight well-damped cheap arm material. Ballpoint pen tips make excellent bearings.
Yes, very true.
Some anecdotic findings about tonearms:
One of my last garage findings was a new Barthè Rotofluid turntable, a nice belt drive from France, ca.1975... That machine had a ¨Lenco Style¨tonearm, with rubber v-blocks knife bearings. The absence of clicks and pops with that tonearm was outstanding -when I listened for the first time I felt af if something was missing, so pronounced was the effect-... I think that the rubber blocks were damping much of the energy produced by clicks. The noise floor was very, very low.
But... those rubber bearings were robbering the music. The drive, the power of transients, even the natural sibilance were gone...
So, taking a difficult road, I modified the bearing (more: I redesign absolutely the vertical movement bearing). I made an acryl/aluminum yoke, and mounted there two little ball races. Making them work properly was real P.I.T.A.... too loose and chatter and noise were all over the signal; too tight and the gusto was gone, the music sounding dead as before.
Finally, I get to the point of optimum adjust. I put some damping there, in the ball bearings cup, in form of solid vaseline. And voilà! Very low noise, lightning fast transients, no mistracking...
But gimbal bearings are really difficult to deal with. I have experience with another tonearm, -Technics Epa-501- for which I made a very strange gimbal (ball races for the horizontal movement, and sapphire cups and golden phonograph needles for the vertical movement)... I obtained the tiny sapphire cups from a pair of dead vumeters...
Once properly adjusted -a lot of trial and error, using little paper pieces to check out sensibility-, that bearing showed an incredible grade of speed and ease. I owe to all of you a set of good pics, because everything I needed to know was here, in threads of this forum...
Jeb, have you checked your tonearm bearings?
With some patience, and a steady hand, you can readjust them.
You must verify the absence of ¨play¨ firstly.
If you detect no play at all, you can check out sensibility...
That´s a delicate -albeit funny- process. If you are interested, I can describe my homebrew method...
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