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Old 23rd December 2015, 03:49 AM   #1
shocks is offline shocks  United States
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Default help troubleshoot weak channel on preamp please

eed some ideas on what component (s) I will need to replace/repair on my preamp and what might have gone wrong

(lost one channel in a zone)

Background info:

1. preamp is a solid state preamp about 10-15 years old
2. would like to fix because it integrates into a whole house keypad system
3. Is an Elan Z-630
4. Could easily buy one on ebay for 25 bucks so you know I am into the fun of this
5. accepts 5 sources and puts them into 3 zones, can create 6 zones if two are piggy backed
6. I have 6 zones:
7: trouble:
a. 1 zone of the preamps 3 zones lost a channel
b. all other 5 zones work fine

I suspect that zone went because of a bad capaciter
I can not find schematic of the z630
I plan on opening up and identifying the circuitry for zone 1 the bad zone and replacing caps and looking for any burns on the pcb.
I do not own an oscilloscope
Could use some ideas up and beyond this
Thanks
Bill
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Old 31st December 2015, 06:22 PM   #2
shocks is offline shocks  United States
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Update
So I bought an oscilloscope Tektronix 465
There is no schematic for elan components
I can easily see how the three channels are laid out
I honestly do not know how to use the Oscilloscope and I am youtubing it and googling it but if there is someone who is patient who will work with a semi-fast learner (limited by 64 years of age and some 3-d eyesight issues) I would be a good apprentice. I will is there. I could provide pictures or anything you need except the schematic. I called Elan and their practice is not to provide.
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Old 31st December 2015, 06:34 PM   #3
Mooly is offline Mooly  United Kingdom
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Nice 'scope.

The oscilloscope plots voltage against time and as such allows you to see both the amplitude and shape of the signal you are probing.

I'm afraid I have no idea what your Elan do-dah is or how it is configured but if you can identify where its going wrong (such as an output lead or output socket that is missing signal) then you might stand a chance.

Back to the scope, and perhaps the best thing you could do would be to make an audio test disc of a pure sine wave. That would be useful for signal tracing and also allow you to become more familiar with the scope.

You can use Audacity to make a such a disc, or make an MP3 file of the tone to play on some portable player.

Installing and using Audacity. A get you started guide.
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Old 1st January 2016, 01:55 AM   #4
shocks is offline shocks  United States
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Default Using the Oscilloscope on the do-dah

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooly View Post
Nice 'scope.

The oscilloscope plots voltage against time and as such allows you to see both the amplitude and shape of the signal you are probing.

I'm afraid I have no idea what your Elan do-dah is or how it is configured but if you can identify where its going wrong (such as an output lead or output socket that is missing signal) then you might stand a chance.

Back to the scope, and perhaps the best thing you could do would be to make an audio test disc of a pure sine wave. That would be useful for signal tracing and also allow you to become more familiar with the scope.

You can use Audacity to make a such a disc, or make an MP3 file of the tone to play on some portable player.

Installing and using Audacity. A get you started guide.


Thank you.
I did exactly what you said
At first glance the scope intimidated me but 2 hours into it I began to be able to trace signals. This unit has 3 zones it puts out to. All with identical or near identical circuit layout. Only 1 channel of one zone is broken so I was able to compare the two good zones with the 1 bad zone. I actually got about 2/3 through the pcb when the signal disappeared. Unfortunately I did not identify any difference between the zones to help me. Tomorrow is a new day. Thanks for the help
bill
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Old 1st January 2016, 02:28 AM   #5
rayma is online now rayma  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shocks View Post
This unit has 3 zones it puts out to. All with identical or near identical circuit layout. Only 1 channel of one zone is broken
so I was able to compare the two good zones with the 1 bad zone. I actually got about 2/3 through the pcb when the signal disappeared.
If you post a good clear photo of the pcb, it will help.
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Old 1st January 2016, 04:45 PM   #6
shocks is offline shocks  United States
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Default Re: photos

I will be happy be upload photo's and I tried to but I have to wait for administrations or moderators permission because I am so new to this site.
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Old 1st January 2016, 04:50 PM   #7
Mooly is offline Mooly  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shocks View Post
I will be happy be upload photo's and I tried to but I have to wait for administrations or moderators permission because I am so new to this site.
What message do you see ?

How to attach images,

To add a photo, files or non standard files.

First click "go advanced" in the box below the "quick reply" message box. Doesn't matter if you decide half way through a message to do that, it carries it forward.

Then click "Manage attachments". Maximise the new Window so that you can see all the text.

Click browse in the first box at the top and find your picture. Repeat for any more pictures.
Click upload... a message appears "uploading"
When complete the files will show as being attached. Now click the small text that says "close this window"

The pictures should now be attached and when you submit your post they will appear.

Make sure your pics aren't too big, a couple of 100k is plenty, and many members object when they are massive and it alters the margins
It tells you in the attachments window what max sizes are allowed.

If you want to attach a file that has a non standard format for example excel, circuit simulation etc then try putting the files in a zipped folder and attaching that.
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Old 1st January 2016, 04:51 PM   #8
shocks is offline shocks  United States
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Default photos of Elan

Here are photos
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ELAN_LABELLED.jpg (986.8 KB, 161 views)
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Old 1st January 2016, 04:53 PM   #9
shocks is offline shocks  United States
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Default Message on attachments

I think it said no security token was attached
I was able to send 1 picture but when I tried to group 5 pictures that is when I got the message about security tokens. So should I send one by one?

Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing.


Here is the actual message

Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing.

If this occurred unexpectedly, please inform the administrator and describe the action you performed before you received this error.

Last edited by shocks; 1st January 2016 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 1st January 2016, 04:57 PM   #10
Mooly is offline Mooly  United Kingdom
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That's quite a complex unit.

So at the lower right there are three sets of outputs. Is it one channel from one set that is missing ?
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