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Old 4th March 2014, 04:15 PM   #21
Turbon is offline Turbon  Sweden
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The won't come cheap - sorry...
But I like them as a first contact to the signal.

Regards
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Old 4th March 2014, 05:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrWagner View Post
You can test what ever you like as this is your test and as this is the Internet, you will not make everyone happy with the testing method The only problem was for me that you only test 1 type of resistor where the sound actually goes through. And the reason is "carbon comp is the "usual" choice".
You can leave the whole B1 section untouched, but don't do it because it is the usual choice. Now you wrote it has the best sound for you so far, which is perfectly reasonable answer for me. But not for others. Internet is big. Everyone will tell what you do wrong. Remember, never give up, never surrender, it is your test
Hi Mr Wagner,

I get your points.

I decided going all carbons at the 470R position (gate stopper) because, in fact, they were recommended in the BOM. Didn't think that the non-inductive characteristic was the main reason (or was it ?) for using this type. That means that I am willing to try different non-inductives there. But since I made the mistake to think the 470R were in the audio signal while they are not, I will not put too much time and $$ on these.

I will probably use what I have already bought. Might try some more IF I can hear a difference. Like the Ayrton-Perry type suggested here by Rodeodave.

So far I have bought the followings 470R:
- Allen Bradley carbon comp 5% 1/2W
- Arcol Japan carbon comp 5% 1/2W
- Kamaya Japan carbon comp 5% 1/2W
- Kiwame Japan carbon film 1% 2W
- Takman Japan REX carbon film 2% 1/2W
- ??? Ayrton-Perry type ???

Now about the Vishay VAR Z-foil, it worked very well at the very beginning of the audio signal in my power amp. IMHO, very transparent and see-through. After a pleasant experience, normal I want to see how they are going to fare in the DCB1.... The Z-foil could end up NOT being a good fit on my DCB1. No problem then, I am fine with that. I know for certain that it is NOT the best resistor....

I just don't believe there is such thing as ''best component''. FOR ME, it's all about synergy. The appreciation of a component--for example here, a resistor-- depends on factors like : meaurements, placement in circuit/type of circuit, synergy with rest...and yes, subjectivity.

But IMHO if different people, with numerous different variables report similar characteristics about a component then, maybe; we have to start becoming a little curious and maybe start paying attention as to the possibility about a certain ''commonness'' of experiences. Call it ''sonic signature'' if you want.

Therefore, I am just one of those guies who will share his experiences. If it's anything worth. Good thing is that 2-3 other audiophiles will be part of the comparative listenning sessions. Some might even post here afterwards.

Now if all this sharing could interest or help others in any ways, good !! I'll be delighted. But obviously, in any case, your MMV.

Now, since I will not be putting too much $$ on the 470R, I will be trying different 220R resistors. So far I have the following 220Rs:

- Vishay VAR Z-foil
- Shinkoh Tantalum
- Takman REY metal film
- Rhopoint Minihoms (if I can get my hands on some...)
- ??? Ayrton-Perry type ??? Help !!!

Any suggestions ? Please go ahead. I could then try and report back.

Regards

Scorpion
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Old 4th March 2014, 05:16 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Rodeodave View Post
If you decide to try different non-inductive types, you must certainly try Ayrton-Perry wound wire type, bulk foil and planar resistors.
Ho Rodeodave,

Any suggestions (brands/series) ?

So far I have found Ohmite Axiohms and some Vishay/Dale (but only 2 watters and up)...

Thanks

Regards

Scorpion
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Old 4th March 2014, 05:27 PM   #24
Turbon is offline Turbon  Sweden
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Default Scorpion...

Spread your efforts over time... Cool down.

Yes, we will probably all test everything over time. Don't rush and listen to some music in between.

Regards
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Old 4th March 2014, 05:47 PM   #25
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2 questions for you all

Since I will have 2 boards, one for trying/swapping components and the other one for final build, I have questions...

1) I had the idea to cut and solder little pieces (1/4'') of resistor legs on the ''test board''. I would solder them everywhere where I would need to do some swaps. At the other extermity of the legs, I thought about crimping very tiny brass sleeves and leave some space left in order to be able to easily ''slide/swap the various resistors into place''. That way, it would prevent me from soldering again and again and potentially damage the ''test board''...and make comparaisons very quick and easy.
What's your take on it ? Any other way to do it better/simplier ?

2) Since I would like to compare things within as little time as possible (in order to keep my ''audio memory'' as ''fresh'' as can be). I tought about building a device that would allow to burn in all the resistors at the same time. So say after, 500 hours of burn-in (all at once), I could swap and compare the effect of changing different ressitors in the 220R position, for example. It could be quick and easy.

Any idea how to best build a device with current going trough 10 different resistors sitting next to the other (in parralell)?

25 volts going trough them all at once seems good to me--but I have limited knowledge in that area, my bad-- in order to be around what's found on Salas' DCB1 (been told about 21V).

Thanks a lot in advance

Regards

Scorpion

Last edited by Scorpion; 4th March 2014 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 5th March 2014, 03:20 PM   #26
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25V on 220ohm gives about 3W and flames quickly.
Normally no more than 2V goes through, meaning 0.02W.
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Old 5th March 2014, 06:41 PM   #27
nezbleu is offline nezbleu  Canada
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Why not use a JFET as a CCS and put the resistors in series, to ensure they all see the same current? What do you expect to change with this "burn-in"? If you just want to heat them up and cool them down, why not just put them in the oven for a while? Will you listen before and after?
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Old 8th March 2014, 03:12 AM   #28
nezbleu is offline nezbleu  Canada
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It got very quiet in here, and I hope I wasn't a jerk. I am very much in favour of this experiment, and look forward to seeing the results. I guess it's clear that I think "burn in" of resistors is silly, but that's me. You guys can do what you want, because this is your experiment, and I don't think it is appropriate for me to start demanding you test the efficacy of "burn in" when you just want to test the sonic differences of resistors. I'll try to put a sock in it, and I look forward to seeing what you guys find!
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Old 8th March 2014, 04:43 AM   #29
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I am very interested in the results of your testing. Do not let the naysayers prevent you from expressing subjective opinions. Some of us value such information, while others cannot abide anything less than laboratory standards for listening tests. They will relentlessly hound you and mock your efforts and results. Best to simply ignore them rather than fan the flames.

Select some music that has lots of variety (vocals, complex passages as well as single tones, preferably acoustic instruments), and that you won't mind listening to over and over and over. Use it for every test. It does not need to be, and might even be better if it isn't, "audiophile" quality. Don't focus on only a single aspect of the sound, but listen to its entirety.

Regarding your test methods: I like the test board idea, but 1/4" of wire might be too short for a lead, and you might melt the solder where such a short wire is connected to the board. Use a little longer lead, even 1/2" would be more stable. Do not use resistor leads for the pigtails; use the best fine gauge wire you can obtain, such as 24ga OCC solid copper.

I wouldn't worry about hours of break-in of resistors. I have found that most take only a few minutes to settle even with line level signals, and some of that might be due to making new connections, which also take a few minutes to settle. In other words, fast swapping of parts is not the best strategy. Listen to each candiate for an hour or more. If you can't tell the difference between parts after extensive careful listening, then the difference is not significant enough to worry about, and fast swaps will only confuse you. Some people maintain that resistors are directional. That adds another variable. You might try it yourself, but be sure to give a reversed part time to settle before deciding one orientation is better than the other. Again, fast swaps and snap decisions are not always accurate. A reversed part might sound different for only the first few minutes, if at all.

You have quite a few candidates, perhaps too many. Instead of attempting to select the ultimate resistor from the field of every type ever made, choose from among what is readily available and "reasonably" priced. Perhaps you should narrow the field with some preliminary testing, then select a few finalists for more extensive trials, including a listening panel of friends. I think you will find the greatest differences between different base materials, and between parts with vs without magnetic properties.

I have tested quite a few types of resistors in various circuits, and learned that a single part, especially a single type or brand of part used exclusively, can lend a distinctive sound. I believe that what contributes to a "house sound" of brands of commercial equipment is the prevalence of any particular brand of component used extensively or exclusively in their circuit. PRP resistors are nice, inexpensive alternatives to commercial grade metal films, but put 40 or so of them in a single circuit and it will sound like PRP resistors, which is not necessarily the best. The best strategy is probably a mixture of various types and brands, so your "serial" selection method (one position settled, then move on to the next) has merit.

You've got a lot on your plate. Take your time. Report here when you're ready. Don't get discouraged and wimp out halfway through. Enjoy the process.

Peace,
Tom E
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Old 8th March 2014, 05:19 AM   #30
nezbleu is offline nezbleu  Canada
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Another alternative to solder "pig-tails" is sockets.
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