Linuxworks, that sounds ideal, with the back-channel being over a network. Did you build the daemon process computer into your design and if so what hardware did you use for that? I don't know much about networking or anything about linux coding myself but it could be fun to learn! Main thing for now is to ensure it's a possible future add-on, I am thinking to leave some GPIO on the MCU board when I do it, one or two will control connected power amps and the rest could be used for this, if feasible?
Thanks for looking at the design rsavas and for your comments! I probably should have outlined in this and my other threads how the overall design would be. The plan is an 8-channel audio interface operating from USB using MINIDSP Streamer for the USB-I2S. The custom boards then break down into 8-Channel DAC - Analogue volume control - Output stage with muting. The MCU then governs the system, controlling the DAC and volume boards with SPI and driving an on-board display. So, it should be a lot like a multi-channel musicians interface but look and operate like a Hi-Fi pre-amp/source. Planned form factor is 1U, a MODU chassis most likely. The reason for this box is to implement DSP crossover on a 3-way tri-amplified setup, the DSP will be by Frequency Allocator. Using the remaining channels for a headphone/aux/subwoofer output is a neat idea.
So in terms of driving impedance, it is direct from op-amps seen in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/242668-new-dac-pcb-dual-pcm4104-8-channels.html
I very much like the idea of putting the DAC, volume, output stages and indeed PSU on one board as it simplifies grounding no end. The only reason I haven't is because I'm working within the 100x80mm limitations of Eagle lite! No other option seems affordable, much as I'd like to learn altium.
I do want a sort of balance control and it can be done in software, to adjust between channels to balance speaker sensitivities. I will see if my coding is up to the task of adding this into a menu! Otherwise it'd be by re-programming that the relative levels are changed; not a huge issue since it should be set and forget.
Your board looks good, I found the PGA! It sounds like the design was valuable for experience so it is important either way
Thanks for looking at the design rsavas and for your comments! I probably should have outlined in this and my other threads how the overall design would be. The plan is an 8-channel audio interface operating from USB using MINIDSP Streamer for the USB-I2S. The custom boards then break down into 8-Channel DAC - Analogue volume control - Output stage with muting. The MCU then governs the system, controlling the DAC and volume boards with SPI and driving an on-board display. So, it should be a lot like a multi-channel musicians interface but look and operate like a Hi-Fi pre-amp/source. Planned form factor is 1U, a MODU chassis most likely. The reason for this box is to implement DSP crossover on a 3-way tri-amplified setup, the DSP will be by Frequency Allocator. Using the remaining channels for a headphone/aux/subwoofer output is a neat idea.
So in terms of driving impedance, it is direct from op-amps seen in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/242668-new-dac-pcb-dual-pcm4104-8-channels.html
I very much like the idea of putting the DAC, volume, output stages and indeed PSU on one board as it simplifies grounding no end. The only reason I haven't is because I'm working within the 100x80mm limitations of Eagle lite! No other option seems affordable, much as I'd like to learn altium.
I do want a sort of balance control and it can be done in software, to adjust between channels to balance speaker sensitivities. I will see if my coding is up to the task of adding this into a menu! Otherwise it'd be by re-programming that the relative levels are changed; not a huge issue since it should be set and forget.
Your board looks good, I found the PGA! It sounds like the design was valuable for experience so it is important either way
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Darn, a limitation of the cad sw, if you want another option, send me a PM, I might be able to help you, we can share libs and design stuff if you want. Learning a new cad pkg does have a learning curve, since everyone is somewhat different than the other.
So you are streaming 8 separate channels of audio over USB, what is the source? the streaming sw running on what?
a pc or equiv device reading a 8 channel audio source(file type) and streaming it on the usb?
I use a PCM2902B as my USB audio codec, as an example. Acts as a simple sound card, but is limited to 16-bits. It is a cheap DAC/ADC. It would be swell if it had higher resolution but what sources are available that are better than regular CD format?
Confused?
So you are streaming 8 separate channels of audio over USB, what is the source? the streaming sw running on what?
a pc or equiv device reading a 8 channel audio source(file type) and streaming it on the usb?
I use a PCM2902B as my USB audio codec, as an example. Acts as a simple sound card, but is limited to 16-bits. It is a cheap DAC/ADC. It would be swell if it had higher resolution but what sources are available that are better than regular CD format?
I have sent this board design for manufacture. Lucky I did some final checks since there was a fatal error, look at the bottom power supplies to the CS3318 on the schematic and you'll see it . Anyhow, all good now and been tidied up
If I learn another package ideally it'd be Altium. Not at all affordable since there's no hobby version that I'm aware of, but useful to know in a professional environment.
Sorry, yep I'll be streaming 8 channels over USB, processed inside the PC to provide the woofer, midrange and tweeter stereo feeds. Source is just a PC running Foobar and Frequency Allocator software. The MiniStreamer provides 4 I2S data outputs to give 8 channels, it is a USB 2.0 device unlike PCM2902B so it has the bandwidth to do this, at higher sample rates and bit depth too. I agree, there aren't really any sources better than 44.1k, but the 24 bit is useful once the audio has been processed by DSP since some signals will be attenuated a great deal by filters.
. Anyhow, all good now and been tidied up If I learn another package ideally it'd be Altium. Not at all affordable since there's no hobby version that I'm aware of, but useful to know in a professional environment.
Sorry, yep I'll be streaming 8 channels over USB, processed inside the PC to provide the woofer, midrange and tweeter stereo feeds. Source is just a PC running Foobar and Frequency Allocator software. The MiniStreamer provides 4 I2S data outputs to give 8 channels, it is a USB 2.0 device unlike PCM2902B so it has the bandwidth to do this, at higher sample rates and bit depth too. I agree, there aren't really any sources better than 44.1k, but the 24 bit is useful once the audio has been processed by DSP since some signals will be attenuated a great deal by filters.
I have sent this board design for manufacture. Lucky I did some final checks since there was a fatal error, look at the bottom power supplies to the CS3318 on the schematic and you'll see it
If I learn another package ideally it'd be Altium. Not at all affordable since there's no hobby version that I'm aware of, but useful to know in a professional environment.
Sorry, yep I'll be streaming 8 channels over USB, processed inside the PC to provide the woofer, midrange and tweeter stereo feeds. Source is just a PC running Foobar and Frequency Allocator software. The MiniStreamer provides 4 I2S data outputs to give 8 channels, it is a USB 2.0 device unlike PCM2902B so it has the bandwidth to do this, at higher sample rates and bit depth too. I agree, there aren't really any sources better than 44.1k, but the 24 bit is useful once the audio has been processed by DSP since some signals will be attenuated a great deal by filters.
Altium does not come for free at all. I have been using EAGLE for some decades now, but 2weeks ago i shifted to Altium, and honestly i am not looking back. It is really state of the art when it comes to PCB board layout!
Thank for your explanation Dr._EM of said system imp.. Sorry, I did not review the design and catch your mistake. I go over and over my stuff and even then there creeps in the odd one. Design, libs, pcb, so much to check
It will work on USB2 or do you need USB3.
Keep us informed of you progress and good luck with the design bring-up. Now you have some sw to write
You know, in all the years I have done pcb's, I have never used a stock lib that came with the cad pkg's. Why, the lib folks do not understand the pcb fab/mfg/test processes, very well. Like pin counters (Small ticks to mark every 10 pins) on SM layers, for fine pitch smt, wait til you have to debug and have to count pins to place your probe for measurement So much missing, it is amazing really.
Years ago, the HP team, wrote tons of ample code for Mentor BS, to auto generate pads/geom's stacks based on the pcb fab process. It was like Mentor BS and DA on steroids.
You folks prefer Altium because? there are many choices avail.
Biggest obstacle to changing any cad pkg is libs, design re-use and learning curve.
High end pcb sw is noticable in features/capabilities, not necessarily ease of use.. What really matters is if the sw does what it is asked to do. At times, the wife laughs at me, when I am cursing the sw, because it did a something that I did not want it to do.
Even hi-end sw, I find that the folks writing it really do not understand layout/ pcb's as a designer would, so are a little shy of some important features. If the sw is customizable then you have that option to do some improvement.
One important feature of any cad pkg is cross probing capability!! Kinda of where I draw the line.
Cheers
Rick
It will work on USB2 or do you need USB3.
Keep us informed of you progress and good luck with the design bring-up. Now you have some sw to write
You know, in all the years I have done pcb's, I have never used a stock lib that came with the cad pkg's. Why, the lib folks do not understand the pcb fab/mfg/test processes, very well. Like pin counters (Small ticks to mark every 10 pins) on SM layers, for fine pitch smt, wait til you have to debug and have to count pins to place your probe for measurement
So much missing, it is amazing really.Years ago, the HP team, wrote tons of ample code for Mentor BS, to auto generate pads/geom's stacks based on the pcb fab process. It was like Mentor BS and DA on steroids.
You folks prefer Altium because? there are many choices avail.
Biggest obstacle to changing any cad pkg is libs, design re-use and learning curve.
High end pcb sw is noticable in features/capabilities, not necessarily ease of use.. What really matters is if the sw does what it is asked to do. At times, the wife laughs at me, when I am cursing the sw, because it did a something that I did not want it to do.
Even hi-end sw, I find that the folks writing it really do not understand layout/ pcb's as a designer would, so are a little shy of some important features. If the sw is customizable then you have that option to do some improvement.
One important feature of any cad pkg is cross probing capability!! Kinda of where I draw the line.
Cheers
Rick
Yep, the learning curve on any new software will be steep. It's for this reason that if I decide to learn a new one I want it to be the right one, so to speak. I think Altium is quite standard professionally now too.
Hi Brett, I will receive 3 boards in my order and will have at least one for sale if not two. I can get more made in batches of 3. You can also get the advantage of me finding out if the layout performs beforehand!
Hi Brett, I will receive 3 boards in my order and will have at least one for sale if not two. I can get more made in batches of 3. You can also get the advantage of me finding out if the layout performs beforehand!
Yep, the learning curve on any new software will be steep. It's for this reason that if I decide to learn a new one I want it to be the right one, so to speak. I think Altium is quite standard professionally now too.
Hi Brett, I will receive 3 boards in my order and will have at least one for sale if not two. I can get more made in batches of 3. You can also get the advantage of me finding out if the layout performs beforehand!
How much will one board cost at student friendly prices ofcourse
I have been using the 3318 for about a year now (maybe longer; time sure flies).
and I have arduino code that drives it, so I would be able to test things pretty quickly. if you have an extra board and want a tester, PM me. I would likely be using my own arduino to drive it, but I would like to see how well alternate pcb's work with this chip (mine is all hand wired on a perf board, so I don't even have a proper pcb in my test unit).
and I have arduino code that drives it, so I would be able to test things pretty quickly. if you have an extra board and want a tester, PM me. I would likely be using my own arduino to drive it, but I would like to see how well alternate pcb's work with this chip (mine is all hand wired on a perf board, so I don't even have a proper pcb in my test unit).
Chicken & Egg!! Don't know if it is any good until you know how to use it and then encounter the fine points. I am sure Altium is fine, depends on what you are asking it to do, as in design complexity, ease of use.
For home use and simple designs(manual layout), I am sticking with orcad 16, as I have tons of libs that I do not want to have to re-do again.
linuxworks,
Have you been listening to music consistently through your setup during your 3318 trials?
Last time we spoke, you were looking for a job, any success?, I am presently out of work.
So much free times these days and I am learning avr asm and optimizing my lcd driver. I need to get a reliable interrupt driven IR receiver going on the xmega.
Any pointers, links to code? What do you think is the best IR code to use, RC5, Sony, NEC, other? I have made a remote IR tx using a ATtiny2313, got the RC5 going so far.
0F outside for the last few days, damn vortex thing
Sunny at least.RobFreak:
Based on the gerber data that I have, the pcb size is x=2.968", y=3.088", must be metric 75.4,78.44mm, not square, I wonder why?
Nice to have some model/revision information in SS or etch too
Brett:
Do you have the same configuration as DR_EM? if not what are your requirements?
yes, I have been using the 3318 preamp I built exclusively the last year or so, as my main system. I have not done any hardware or software for it since about a year ago (I plan to start again soon, though).
as for jobs: I got hit with a RIF (reduction in force; aka, layoff) just recently ;( about 1/3 of our office was let go and so I'm back to the job search again, sigh. I guess in the meantime, I'll have a bit more time to tinker around with the audio stuff, but most of my hardware lab gear is still packed in moving boxes and so I can't do too much on the hardware side, right now.
you can grab the lcduino code (from amb.org) and that has a reasonable IR receive library in it (I didn't write it, but I've been using it for a few years now). it does not decode everything but its fine for nec and especially sony. the rc5/6 codes are less reliable as they are not stateless (repeat keys depend on previous state, which is a bad design imho, but philips did what they did and nothing we can do can fix their bad design). I tell everyone just to use a sony compat remote; it works the best and you can point the IR anywhere in a room and it usually works, even bounced off walls.
as for jobs: I got hit with a RIF (reduction in force; aka, layoff) just recently ;( about 1/3 of our office was let go and so I'm back to the job search again, sigh. I guess in the meantime, I'll have a bit more time to tinker around with the audio stuff, but most of my hardware lab gear is still packed in moving boxes and so I can't do too much on the hardware side, right now.
you can grab the lcduino code (from amb.org) and that has a reasonable IR receive library in it (I didn't write it, but I've been using it for a few years now). it does not decode everything but its fine for nec and especially sony. the rc5/6 codes are less reliable as they are not stateless (repeat keys depend on previous state, which is a bad design imho, but philips did what they did and nothing we can do can fix their bad design). I tell everyone just to use a sony compat remote; it works the best and you can point the IR anywhere in a room and it usually works, even bounced off walls.
Thx Bryan,
Found it at The LCDuino-1 Display I/O Processor, so I will look it over.
As you know, I wrote my radio code in BASCOM, which does not have a linker facility, so stuck to re-write c code into basic, or just follow the examples that you provided. All good practice for me, that and getting back into asm for the low level libs.
So challenge is get this IR stuff going reliably.
Managed to figure out how to compile c using AVR Studio4 and the AVR GGC/avr-libc.
Wonder why it is not been updated in a long time? Was happy to see support for early xmega devices.
Man I got lots to learn
Got the lcd lib going using the busy flag, using the xmega and Newhaven 4x40 displays at 3v3. I have not writen asm since the early college days, 8080/5, same time as Bill G, but he was a bit more successful than I
I have read that the Sony SIRC protcol spec's, carrier mod rate is 40KHz, I can't see any reason why it would not work at other rates 36, 38KHz? As long as the receiver matches!
Take care and happy coding
Rick
Found it at The LCDuino-1 Display I/O Processor, so I will look it over.
As you know, I wrote my radio code in BASCOM, which does not have a linker facility, so stuck to re-write c code into basic, or just follow the examples that you provided. All good practice for me, that and getting back into asm for the low level libs.
So challenge is get this IR stuff going reliably.
Managed to figure out how to compile c using AVR Studio4 and the AVR GGC/avr-libc.
Wonder why it is not been updated in a long time? Was happy to see support for early xmega devices.
Man I got lots to learn
Got the lcd lib going using the busy flag, using the xmega and Newhaven 4x40 displays at 3v3. I have not writen asm since the early college days, 8080/5, same time as Bill G, but he was a bit more successful than I
I have read that the Sony SIRC protcol spec's, carrier mod rate is 40KHz, I can't see any reason why it would not work at other rates 36, 38KHz? As long as the receiver matches!
Take care and happy coding
Rick
How much will one board cost at student friendly prices ofcourse
Only about £10, assuming I don't get hit with any import duties, which can be shockingly steep, 'admin fees'! Would you be interested in getting the Cirrus IC along with the board since they are hard to get in Europe? I might just add a couple of spares into my order now for this reason. Total cost is then around £28-30
Only about £10, assuming I don't get hit with any import duties, which can be shockingly steep, 'admin fees'! Would you be interested in getting the Cirrus IC along with the board since they are hard to get in Europe? I might just add a couple of spares into my order now for this reason. Total cost is then around £28-30
Actually i have two CS3318 babies laying around which i should have used a half year ago in a project, but i have realised throughout my education that we cant do 100 things at once. What quality are the boards?
Oops, well I just got 2 extras anyhow, shouldn't be an issue selling them on, they seem pretty popular and I'm sure it'll help someone out. I've not yet received the boards, should arrive later this week, everything I've heard about OSH Park has been positive and I shall post up pictures of the boards as soon as I can
Definitely interested in 4 units still. I'll wait and see how it works out and spend the interim doing my I/O drivers.Hi Brett, I will receive 3 boards in my order and will have at least one for sale if not two. I can get more made in batches of 3. You can also get the advantage of me finding out if the layout performs beforehand!
Oops, well I just got 2 extras anyhow, shouldn't be an issue selling them on, they seem pretty popular and I'm sure it'll help someone out. I've not yet received the boards, should arrive later this week, everything I've heard about OSH Park has been positive and I shall post up pictures of the boards as soon as I can
OSH Park should be decent enough i've heard. Never used them, only Chinese poor-man production ;-) How much is shipping to Denmark?
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