Hello,
I'm planning to DIY an active XO for my open baffles, an 8" full range Visaton B200 and an as of yet determined bass running about 200hz and down. I had a few questions pertaining to Active Crossovers and a bit of EQ. I am seriously considering this project:
Linkwitz-Riley Electronic Crossover
Has anyone had much experience with this crossover? From what I gather, this offers no phase inversion?
I am also interested in this because I am also keen on the subwoofer equalizer kit on his site to tweak the bass in a bit more on the OB.
Would anyone suggest any alternatives to this kit? I have seen the B1 Crossover thread, and the Pete Millet preamp, but they may be a little more work than I am prepared to do at the moment. I am new to Active Xo's, complex DIY, and the old John Pomann Crossover Experimenters kit is no longer available. Thanks
I'm planning to DIY an active XO for my open baffles, an 8" full range Visaton B200 and an as of yet determined bass running about 200hz and down. I had a few questions pertaining to Active Crossovers and a bit of EQ. I am seriously considering this project:
Linkwitz-Riley Electronic Crossover
Has anyone had much experience with this crossover? From what I gather, this offers no phase inversion?
I am also interested in this because I am also keen on the subwoofer equalizer kit on his site to tweak the bass in a bit more on the OB.
Would anyone suggest any alternatives to this kit? I have seen the B1 Crossover thread, and the Pete Millet preamp, but they may be a little more work than I am prepared to do at the moment. I am new to Active Xo's, complex DIY, and the old John Pomann Crossover Experimenters kit is no longer available. Thanks
I normally select 160-170 Hz as crossover point for open baffle with subwoofer...that would be my suggestion. Fulrange can easily handle down to 160Hz.
I have had a period when I built numerous active crossovers, always preffered simple transistor based one over the OPA based. Even I use the best OPA I could efford, I have always heard them. I ended up using just passive filter buffered, that sounded best to me on midrange and up. For subwoofer, that is less critical, I used those previously built OPA based crossovers (with high pass not used).
I have had a period when I built numerous active crossovers, always preffered simple transistor based one over the OPA based. Even I use the best OPA I could efford, I have always heard them. I ended up using just passive filter buffered, that sounded best to me on midrange and up. For subwoofer, that is less critical, I used those previously built OPA based crossovers (with high pass not used).
Would you be willing to suggest any circuits or kits to look at? I understand the reason for crossing at 160hz, but I am sure I will probably play with it some to get a value that works for my room and system.
marchand makes lots of crossover kits
electronic crossover, PLLXO, passive crossover, active crossover, custom amplifier
electronic crossover, PLLXO, passive crossover, active crossover, custom amplifier
No phase inversion? What about swapping the speaker leads over?
The Linkwitz site offers almost everything you could ever need in the way of information to design and build your own analogue active filters.
At my level of knowledge I do not know of anything that is omitted from the Linkwitz site. Except maybe D.Self's book.
The Linkwitz site offers almost everything you could ever need in the way of information to design and build your own analogue active filters.
At my level of knowledge I do not know of anything that is omitted from the Linkwitz site. Except maybe D.Self's book.
The P09 filter boards are a good introduction to active xover. They can be somewhat flexible for building Sallen/Key style filters of various orders, once you learn more about how filters are configured. ESP does not provide much theoretical info; that must be learned elsewhere. The documentation supplied is sufficient to build the kits with various configurations and values.
The filters are only as good as the parts you use. Rod does not believe AT ALL in boutique parts. He is a strict objectivist. I believe you can use better parts than he recommends and get better sound, but not better measurements. One point we do agree on is that accuracy of matching part values within the circuit and between channels is essential. You should invest in an LCR meter or expect to pay a lot more for parts already closely matched.
The boards themselves are acceptable quality, nothing special, perfectly fitting Rod's objectives of doing only what is necessary and no more. The pads can lift easily, or be easily twisted off the board by the slightest force on soldered components or wires. He sells pins that fit the input/output pads, or you can buy them from a parts supplier when you get your parts. They will serve to make the off-board connections a little more secure. Almost anything that hangs loose from the board will eventually lift the pad it's attached to if any force is applied.
You will need a power supply. The one ESP sells is adequate.
Experimentation is awkward unless you use sockets so you can change out components to trial different xover configurations instead of desoldering/resoldering. If I had it to do over again, I might start with DSP and then use the results of testing to build these kits once or, at most, twice. If you know exactly what you want in advance, then go ahead and build the kits. All in all, they're pretty easy and work as advertised, and are a decent value. Consider buying a spare board in case you screw one up, or if you want to experiment with two different configurations without modifying either.
Peace,
Tom E
The filters are only as good as the parts you use. Rod does not believe AT ALL in boutique parts. He is a strict objectivist. I believe you can use better parts than he recommends and get better sound, but not better measurements. One point we do agree on is that accuracy of matching part values within the circuit and between channels is essential. You should invest in an LCR meter or expect to pay a lot more for parts already closely matched.
The boards themselves are acceptable quality, nothing special, perfectly fitting Rod's objectives of doing only what is necessary and no more. The pads can lift easily, or be easily twisted off the board by the slightest force on soldered components or wires. He sells pins that fit the input/output pads, or you can buy them from a parts supplier when you get your parts. They will serve to make the off-board connections a little more secure. Almost anything that hangs loose from the board will eventually lift the pad it's attached to if any force is applied.
You will need a power supply. The one ESP sells is adequate.
Experimentation is awkward unless you use sockets so you can change out components to trial different xover configurations instead of desoldering/resoldering. If I had it to do over again, I might start with DSP and then use the results of testing to build these kits once or, at most, twice. If you know exactly what you want in advance, then go ahead and build the kits. All in all, they're pretty easy and work as advertised, and are a decent value. Consider buying a spare board in case you screw one up, or if you want to experiment with two different configurations without modifying either.
Peace,
Tom E
For what you will pay for boards, parts, power supply, etc. you can just buy an entry level pro crossover and some adapter cables. For instance dBx 223 is worth a look, or for a peg lower on the quality notch a Behringer CX2310.
If you want to roll your own I strongly suggest using the Marchand XM1 crossover boards. Good quality and swappable corner frequency.
-Charlie
If you want to roll your own I strongly suggest using the Marchand XM1 crossover boards. Good quality and swappable corner frequency.
-Charlie
No direct experience of that one, no but I built a similar design myself with opamps a few years ago. Avoid that approach and build style if SQ is important to you.
I have been town between DIY and buying a crossover, and my friend suggested it was cheaper and easier to build a nice sounding one than buy one cheap and have it sound decent at best. Perhaps I've been mislead.
If one were to buy a unit as opposed to building one, where should I begin? I was always under the impression that I end up buying a bunch of features I won't use and need to use adapters and so on, and have been a little skeptical of them as a result.
If one were to buy a unit as opposed to building one, where should I begin? I was always under the impression that I end up buying a bunch of features I won't use and need to use adapters and so on, and have been a little skeptical of them as a result.
All those cheap active xovers sound AWFUL: brightness without detail, noisy, etc. They use the lowest quality parts and crappy power supply. They are good enough for basic experimentation only, not as a permanent installation. They offer some flexibility and convenience, but no fidelity or accuracy.
Marchand makes a quality product, and you will pay a lot more for it.
Peace,
Tom E
Marchand makes a quality product, and you will pay a lot more for it.
Peace,
Tom E
I rather suspect the difficulty here arises from the fact that 'nice sounding' is entirely subjective. Many people get on just fine with the sound of normal opamps and standard layout in an active XO. I did for years, until I really started listening carefully - but now I can't go back
if your source is going to be a normal S-D type DAC with onboard opamps then you'll do perfectly OK with Rod Elliot's approach.While I am still considering the ESP, I have also found an Ashly XR1001 for a good price. My thinking is that if it doesn't work out for me or I decide to go DSP, the Ashly will be more sellable than the ESP, so my investment is somewhat recoverable. Is that logical? Are the Ashly units sufficient for my need of something that sounds "good to me but probably only ok to some others"? I am not a big audiophile, I run a Bottlehead Quickie tube preamp and a Denon POA2400 power amp currently, and am going to run my bass off the Denon and build an F5 Turbo for my Full-range drivers. Am I nutso?
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I realize his site deals with more than just that. I understand what goes into the Linkwitz filters and would love to build his designs but for the time being I just don't feel I would be able to put one together for the price I'm paying without major headaches. I intend to build a more suitable unit over time as I learn what works for me and what my requirements are.
That Ashly unit has some nice features and will work well as a LP for your sub. I owned a similar model years ago. Perhaps they've improved the sound, but don't expect it to sound good as a HP for the mains. It will be suitable for experimentation. Don't pass up a good deal. Your plan to advance in increments is a good one, so take that first step!
The Linkwitz site can be intimidating, but read it several times and digest a bit more each time. His boards are perhaps too complicated for the novice. Today's tip: there is a member offering a couple older style boards for almost free in the Swap section, if they're not gone already. It would be a great way to get started with DIY.
Peace,
Tom E
The Linkwitz site can be intimidating, but read it several times and digest a bit more each time. His boards are perhaps too complicated for the novice. Today's tip: there is a member offering a couple older style boards for almost free in the Swap section, if they're not gone already. It would be a great way to get started with DIY.
Peace,
Tom E
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