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Old 18th June 2011, 10:09 PM   #41
sbrads is offline sbrads  United Kingdom
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I get amazing depth of imaging with my old setup. The width is very good as well, it can go well outside the speakers, but it's the depth that I find astonishing. It's focused, and I can hear if something is 50ft behind the speakers or a few feet in front. I put this down to having quite directional old big panel 3 way speakers, Castle Conway IIs. I've cleaned up the sound a bit with better crossover components and internal wiring but mainly I think it's because there's 3 cone speakers that don't excite room resonances much because nothing much gets squirted sideways. I can have the sound really loud and stand to the side of the speakers and it's quiet, so there's nothing much to hit the walls and bounce off basically, so I don't hear the room acoustic, I hear the recording environment acoustic. Small sweet spot though, but with fantastic projection. Play one speaker and it still sounds like stereo compared with anything else I've tried at home.
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Old 19th June 2011, 12:20 AM   #42
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Play one speaker and it still sounds like stereo
Maybe I'm wrong for your case, but this happens normally just because of a lot of reflections.
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Old 19th June 2011, 01:21 PM   #43
sbrads is offline sbrads  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by Radugazon View Post
Maybe I'm wrong for your case, but this happens normally just because of a lot of reflections.
No, fairly inert room here. By stereo I don't mean left/right. I mean back/front effects are still evident.
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Old 19th June 2011, 01:57 PM   #44
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This can be very difficult to pin-down because it involves human perception. Soundfield depth production is a psycho-acoustic effect. To simplify finding an answer, I suggest that we eliminate the loudspeaker because the differing radiation patterns of different loudspeakers the issue. What's more interesting to note, as you do, that differences are apparent with a change only in the electronic components. What's, perhaps, even more interesting still is that differences in apparent depth (spaciousness?) which can be heard using only a single loudspeaker.

Getting back to basics, there are only three ways in which an electronic component can alter the waveform which is ultimately sent to a loudspeaker. Which are amplitude, frequency, and phase. Logically, perceived differences in depth must begin with physical differences in the manner in which a component alters one of those three physical parameters. Given this, one can see how two speakers aren't absolutely necessary to hear such changes. Amplitude, frequency, and phase changes can not only occur between channels but within a single channel. Not only could amplitude and phase be altered versus frequency, but frequency itself could be altered versus frequency, producing harmonic and/or intermodulation distortion. All within the same channel. Where does that leave us? Well, at the end of the reproduction chain waits our human perceptual system. Our hearing, and how it interprets changes in waveform amplitude, frequency, and phase determine all of the various audiophile effects which we perceive.

I suppose, the real question you are asking is, how can we predict which waveform alterations (or absence of alterations will improve our illusion of depth, and thereby, know which components or technologies (tubes vs. transistors, etc.) will provide some desired listening result. I suspect that the entire playback chain, including our hearing psycho-acoustics, are too complex to provide us a simple analysis metric. Perhaps, the best way will long remain a personal listening evaluation with our own ears, within our own systems, within our own rooms.
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Last edited by Ken Newton; 19th June 2011 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 09:49 PM   #45
sbrads is offline sbrads  United Kingdom
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My take on hearing stereo effects with one speaker with regard to psycho-acoustic effects is this... we just need to be able to hear everything! By everything, obviously it's frequencies, phasing, amplitude stuff, but when we listen to reproduced music/speech there's usually an awful lot of crud added in the form of resonances in mainly loudspeakers, distortions in both electronics and loudspeakers, and this crud masks the perception of low level information like subtle reverberation which gives spatial clues to our brains, so 99% of the time we never hear it and the soundstage is flat as a pancake. A great system lets us hear these clues because there's much less noisy junk masking them and we get the big soundstage. Perhaps some systems even enhance these clues?
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Old 22nd June 2011, 11:28 PM   #46
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DSP_Geek, That sounds like a good idea. I've got regular thin felt about a half inch out from my Millenium SEAS one inch domes now. I may add what you did with thicker felt. Linkwitz actually measured and showed frequency resonse ripple in the 3kHZ region due to diffraction effects. I didn't realize 3kHZ would diffract significantly, but apparently I was wrong.
I would make sure the foam was NOT cut in a circle around the tweeter, since that might set up a standing wave at the width of the hole. Instead try a star shape - think of cutting with pinking shears but much deeper. I had good results with four points, as described above, but more may work just as well. It's the two dimensional analogue of an anechoic chamber, save you're absorbing the surface wave leaving the tweeter instead of a plane wave in space hitting a wall.
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Old 22nd June 2011, 11:31 PM   #47
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I have found good presence gives a good sound stage.

My guitar always sounded dead and bland with no presence control.
I added a presence control and things improved no end.
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Old 23rd June 2011, 04:31 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by DSP_Geek View Post
I would make sure the foam was NOT cut in a circle around the tweeter, since that might set up a standing wave at the width of the hole. Instead try a star shape - think of cutting with pinking shears but much deeper. I had good results with four points, as described above, but more may work just as well. It's the two dimensional analogue of an anechoic chamber, save you're absorbing the surface wave leaving the tweeter instead of a plane wave in space hitting a wall.
What you've said makes perfect sense. I'm going to do it. Thanks.
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