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Old 7th March 2010, 04:32 PM   #121
Berny is offline Berny  Belgium
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Hello Danzup,

Very nice attenuators! I have been working on similar projects. Where can I find more info on how to calculate the resistors in your shunt version?

Thank you,
Bern
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Old 8th March 2010, 08:51 AM   #122
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Finally, it work. I choose shunt because it easier Resistor value than R-2R. The only problem, i think it because my encoder (the only encoder i can find in my town), it need two detent to change value. Anything it work perfectly. The klik sound from relay not enter n audio line.
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Old 8th March 2010, 11:13 AM   #123
danzup is offline danzup  Romania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berny View Post
Hello Danzup,

Very nice attenuators! I have been working on similar projects. Where can I find more info on how to calculate the resistors in your shunt version?

Thank you,
Bern
50-Step Shunt Attenuator Resistor Calculator - Neville Roberts
and choose 32 steps , then you calculate resistors in parallel to fit in 6 relay combination .
And at the end you will find my value !
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Last edited by danzup; 8th March 2010 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 11th March 2010, 06:45 AM   #124
Vikt0r is offline Vikt0r  Ukraine
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Yesterday I had an issue with PGA2310, want to post it here to check if someone may had similar thing. So, my PGA suddenly died. In the evening I turned off the device just usually (staying in standby, so the PGA and controller were on), and in the morning when I turned it on - it didn't work anymore.
On the PCB around the PGA traces of overheating are visible - the fiberglass even turned slightly brown, which means that for some reason the PGA just burned... Also, when I touched it (wasn't working already) it was still very hot.
Once I have met similar behaviour, when the PGA "hung-up" for some reason - the chip started heating up, but resetting it helped and that time it started working again. This time, obviously, I didn't detect the issue in time, so the chip went dead.
So, it seems to me, that it's a general design&manufacturing issue for the PGA2310 - when the chip looses communication (hangs) - the internal registers can set it to a random state, where some excessive current runs through the chip and it naturally burns. I think this issue needs to be addressed by TI's engineers, as if it happened to me - may happen to any customer. But in general, it spoiled a bit my impressions about this, otherwise fantastic chip. Just be aware.
I resoldered the chip and now everything works fine, but... How can I avoid this in the future? So far the best solution seems to me unpowering the device, which of course makes the standby mode useless...
Maybe worth adding an additional relay or two in parallel to the power relay, so it will turn off the power of PGA when the device is in standby? This would need at least 3 switching groups, to take down both digital and analog (+/-) power from the PGA...?
any thoughts?
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Old 11th March 2010, 07:01 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikt0r View Post
Yesterday I had an issue with PGA2310, want to post it here to check if someone may had similar thing. So, my PGA suddenly died. In the evening I turned off the device just usually (staying in standby, so the PGA and controller were on), and in the morning when I turned it on - it didn't work anymore.
On the PCB around the PGA traces of overheating are visible - the fiberglass even turned slightly brown, which means that for some reason the PGA just burned... Also, when I touched it (wasn't working already) it was still very hot.
Once I have met similar behaviour, when the PGA "hung-up" for some reason - the chip started heating up, but resetting it helped and that time it started working again. This time, obviously, I didn't detect the issue in time, so the chip went dead.
So, it seems to me, that it's a general design&manufacturing issue for the PGA2310 - when the chip looses communication (hangs) - the internal registers can set it to a random state, where some excessive current runs through the chip and it naturally burns. I think this issue needs to be addressed by TI's engineers, as if it happened to me - may happen to any customer. But in general, it spoiled a bit my impressions about this, otherwise fantastic chip. Just be aware.
I resoldered the chip and now everything works fine, but... How can I avoid this in the future? So far the best solution seems to me unpowering the device, which of course makes the standby mode useless...
Maybe worth adding an additional relay or two in parallel to the power relay, so it will turn off the power of PGA when the device is in standby? This would need at least 3 switching groups, to take down both digital and analog (+/-) power from the PGA...?
any thoughts?
Maybe you should try to find the actual cause of the overheating first. What I read in your post is speculation but there is no proof that the cause is what you think.
For exampe, when you 'turn off' the controller, in which state does it leave the PGA? Do you set it to mute? Do you have a relay on the output, and if so what state is it left?

jd
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Old 11th March 2010, 07:06 AM   #126
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Default Pga2310

To avoid such result I modified Dan's volume control source code for M16, in my firmware version I deleted poweron/off function from M16. In my amplifire ATTiny2313 does it. And PGA2310 swetched off with amplifire power is off and PGA2310 is on when amplifire power is on.
P.S.: From the very beginning I thought that its bad idea to make PGA2310 allways be ON with +5v. Thats why I changed danzup source code first.
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Old 11th March 2010, 07:06 AM   #127
danzup is offline danzup  Romania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikt0r View Post
Yesterday I had an issue with PGA2310, want to post it here to check if someone may had similar thing. So, my PGA suddenly died. In the evening I turned off the device just usually (staying in standby, so the PGA and controller were on), and in the morning when I turned it on - it didn't work anymore.
On the PCB around the PGA traces of overheating are visible - the fiberglass even turned slightly brown, which means that for some reason the PGA just burned... Also, when I touched it (wasn't working already) it was still very hot.
Once I have met similar behaviour, when the PGA "hung-up" for some reason - the chip started heating up, but resetting it helped and that time it started working again. This time, obviously, I didn't detect the issue in time, so the chip went dead.
So, it seems to me, that it's a general design&manufacturing issue for the PGA2310 - when the chip looses communication (hangs) - the internal registers can set it to a random state, where some excessive current runs through the chip and it naturally burns. I think this issue needs to be addressed by TI's engineers, as if it happened to me - may happen to any customer. But in general, it spoiled a bit my impressions about this, otherwise fantastic chip. Just be aware.
I resoldered the chip and now everything works fine, but... How can I avoid this in the future? So far the best solution seems to me unpowering the device, which of course makes the standby mode useless...
Maybe worth adding an additional relay or two in parallel to the power relay, so it will turn off the power of PGA when the device is in standby? This would need at least 3 switching groups, to take down both digital and analog (+/-) power from the PGA...?
any thoughts?
Hi , in 2 years of using this chip nevere faild !!
But if you forgot to connect digital gnd to the analog gnd then the PGA start burning !

I think you have a problems with GND traces .
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Old 11th March 2010, 07:10 AM   #128
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Default Pga2310

Vikt0r,
Dan may be is right about GND
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Old 11th March 2010, 07:11 AM   #129
danzup is offline danzup  Romania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janneman View Post
Maybe you should try to find the actual cause of the overheating first. What I read in your post is speculation but there is no proof that the cause is what you think.
For exampe, when you 'turn off' the controller, in which state does it leave the PGA? Do you set it to mute? Do you have a relay on the output, and if so what state is it left?

jd
The mute line is activated to the chip .
And there are not problems with that as PGA is working correctly if only all 3 tension are applied at the same time and removed at the same time .
When in stand-by my controller does not cut the power to the PGA !
Only to the power amplifier !!!
The atmega and PGA are always on a separate power source (separate transformer ) the so call stand-by transformer which can provide the +5V for digital section and the +- for analogue part !!!
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Last edited by danzup; 11th March 2010 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 11th March 2010, 07:18 AM   #130
Vikt0r is offline Vikt0r  Ukraine
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In the "off" state the PGA is set to mute and source selector relays are unpowered, only the power rails stay connected on. The output remains connected to the poweramp's input, which is also off.
As I mentioned before, I had a similar behaviour once - that time the sound went suddenly cranked (with a huge amount of "digitally sounding" distortion) and the PGA started heating up. Only powering the whole device off and on helped. The chip naturally "hung", and what I noticed - immediate and powerful overheating. So, my "speculation" comes out of a logical analysis, not just outta pointing my finger into the sealing...and the "actual cause of overheating" seats inside the chip's behaviour. If you have ever read the datasheet - it's mentioned inside, that the chip is basically a resistor ladder switched by digital switching network. It's more or less obvious for me, that once the data in chip's register for any reason get's wrong, there is a POSSIBLE STATE, where switches get open the way they are shorting power rails to the ground. This should not happen during the normal operation, of course, but the PROBLEM is that there is no protection within the chip against a mentioned uncontrolled condition.
Or have you got any better idea, not just speculation?
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