John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II

[Andre Visser]

Originally Posted by PMA

I listen mostly to classical music, chamber and philharmonic orchestra. Tubes make fables, they are not true.

PMA, I'm with you here, I still have to find a tube amp that sound more realistic than a good SS amp.

[stinius]

Originally Posted by Curly Woods

Nonsense? Maybe in your world, but not in the one that I live in :-) Good audio is wonderful. I feel sorry if you can not recreate the type of sound that most every audiophile that I know or have had experience with strives to create with their systems. Its out there, don't give up the search :-)

Curly

It seems like we have a small disagreement.

I like tube gear when it comes to creating sound, guitar amps, Hammond amps (leslie), tube microphones and other tube gear that is used to create the warm tube sound.

As I see it, they are used to create a specific sound that is recorded or played live.

What we are talking about here is reproduction of the already created sound.

Do you agree that creating and reproducing sound is not the same thing?

As an example: I don’t thing Jimmy Hendrix sounds best played on a Marshall rig, even if I had my own wah-wah pedal to make it even more realistic, magical or musical.

Cheers

[Curly Woods]

Originally Posted by anatech

Hi Curly,
Sorry man, I am not joking.

Just because something is expensive and had a "name" does not make it good. You should know that! Good SS exists in places where you never expected to find it, in sleepers that missed the nod from reviewers.

I have worked on all brands of audio equipment for over 30 years. Every type and nearly every brand. I was very lucky to have been factory trained by many cutting edge companies, as well as experienced designers in the engineering departments.

What sales people didn't know was actually kept from them - for good reason. A salesman's job is to move boxes. If you tell them too much, you're very apt to lose sales if you're not careful. What else would you expect from non-technical people selling a technical product? If they push to know more, you feed them something that sounds technical, but keep it basic. Stuff like "we use mil-spec. parts", or "we use [cable of the day] for all internal wiring". The list goes on. You get the idea.

Upset? Why? What do most car salespeople know? Not engineering details I can assure you. No way will anyone explain the trade-offs in arriving at the finished product, even if they are good trade-offs. You need to move boxes, that's all.

-Chris

Chris, You obviously have never worked in high end audio, if you feel that your idea of how it works is correct. Mid-fi shops, absolutely! Not a good high end shop though. Just would not fly with the type of customers that shop there.

Do you really think that there is very much out there that I and my collegues never heard? That is very shallow thinking on your part. I have been to over 15 CES in my life time, maybe a few more if think about it. We constantly had reps from every manyfacturer known to man coming into our store to show off there latest and greatest equipment. Expensive equipment gaurantees nothin g for sure, but great sounding equipment is never cheap due to the costs of the passive components in them as a start. I know that great many here feel that passive components make little or not difference. If they were simply installed without forethought, that would likely be true.

The best designers that I have meet used specific passive components in key spots based upon their sonic signature to tailor the final sounds to be the best it possibly could be. I am amazed that people with very little worldly experience with many of the greatest audio designs, give critics on them without ever having heard any of them many times. I can understand someone not finding a amp or preamp to their liking, but not without first hearing it! If all of audio equipment were the same, we would only need one brand. Sure mid-fi stuff you could throw in any case change the name and it will still sound the same. They are trying to design to a dollar amount. Their hands are tied.

[Curly Woods]

Originally Posted by stinius

Curly

It seems like we have a small disagreement.

I like tube gear when it comes to creating sound, guitar amps, Hammond amps (leslie), tube microphones and other tube gear that is used to create the warm tube sound.

As I see it, they are used to create a specific sound that is recorded or played live.

What we are talking about here is reproduction of the already created sound.

Do you agree that creating and reproducing sound is not the same thing?


Cheers

I compare everything that I hear in my system to what I hear at the symphony or a chamber group of a viola, a cello and violin. I have friends that are outstanding acoustic guitarists, one is classically trained and very good to boot.

I have heard very few solid state audio rigs, from the least expensive to the ultimate, that can produce sounds that come as close to a real instrument. The best solid state is very good, but not involving in terms of tempo, swell, energy, etc as a great tubed system. It is just a flat cardboard like perspective in my experience.

[anatech]

Hi Curly,
Sorry, I have been working in high end audio.

I knew you wouldn't like that particular bit of information.

Listen, everyone knows that CES is a dog and pony show. It's rare to find any room that sounds truly good. Now, if you want to hear really good two channel audio, there are two places you can go.

One is Burning Amp in San Fran, drop in and catch the Rocky Mountain show while you are in the area.

Two is in Europe. The London show is good, as are others. ETF (European Triode Festival) would be excellent as well.

I live in a factual world, letting you know the truth doesn't benefit or hurt me in any way. If you have a problem with what I said, start digging. Just remember that it's not a religion, it's just audio. Mov'in boxes. If you're really stuck on what you've said, you might want to keep the number for the crisis hotline close to your phone. The truth can be pretty rough.

-Chris

[john curl]

Chris, you are a man of many opinions, but you are not always right. I find that at least 1 or 2 rooms at CES sound really good to great, every year. This year, the RMAF didn't give me anything extraordinary, even our own room.

[stinius]

Originally Posted by Curly Woods

I have friends that are outstanding acoustic guitarists, one is classically trained and very good to boot.

Maybe you should drop some names, it always helps.
When you are finished. Maybe I will drop some names as well.

[SY]

I have the principal violinist for the Dallas Symphony as a drinking buddy. How many points does that get me?

[Joshua_G]

Originally Posted by Curly Woods

I am amazed that people with very little worldly experience with many of the greatest audio designs, give critics on them without ever having heard any of them many times.

This is very common here.

Originally Posted by anatech

I live in a factual world, letting you know the truth doesn't benefit or hurt me in any way.

Yet you criticized speakers you never heard. So I wonder what you may refer to as "truth".

[Joshua_G]

Originally Posted by SY

I have the principal violinist for the Dallas Symphony as a drinking buddy. How many points does that get me?

Mine is bigger.