John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II

[Curly Woods]

Originally Posted by syn08

Have you changed your mind lately? You now think the price tag is a guarantee for quality?

No I have not, but the best designs are never cheap though. The best quality components cost money. A great design when coupled with the very best passive components could be glorious. I have heard a few that were just that. Incredible.

I have not heard the Blowtorch, but that does not mean that it is not a pinnacle type product either. I prefer the sound of tube circuits, but many people prefer SS. There is room for all in my world :-)

[syn08]

Originally Posted by Curly Woods

I have not heard the Blowtorch

And probably you never will. That's the funniest part about the Blowtorch: almost nobody has heard one, but almost everybody has an opinion about

[john curl]

No, only thousands of people have heard the unit, mostly at CES over the last 10 years. Too late, now.

[Joshua_G]

Originally Posted by syn08

And probably you never will. That's the funniest part about the Blowtorch: almost nobody has heard one, but almost everybody has an opinion about

That includes yourself – having so many opinions …

[anatech]

Hi Steve,

Eddy currents in Al have been used for many years for damping motion without contact that could alter results. Laboratory scales are a good example.

That's an even better example. The worst part is that I know this stuff and actually had done work on scales in the past! Duh.

Anyway, excellent examples of things we (or at least I) take for granted.

Hi syn08,

The next step for a no compromise amp would be to build the case out of solid silver. This will certainly help and the amp will have a open, silverish sound

I'll bet this has been done already, complete with review on the silvery sound!

The one thing we must accept is that in the audio business, it's as much about the sound quality as the appearance and any other marketing advantages. Once you pass a certain level in price, pure performance may actually become irrelevant to some extent.

I am not commenting on the Blowtorch here, just general observations made over many years in the audio industry. The fact that John is using something that scores technically as well as aesthetically is a bonus. If it were an aluminum outer case over a damped steel interior of the proper dimensions, customers would be buying the solid aluminum unit simply over the perception of quality if nothing else.

Hi Curly,
What syn08 is saying has merit, just as you reflect what the average customer may think. Two viewpoints from opposite corners of the universe. What construction methods actually work better, or deliver higher actual technical value is normally non-existent in both very low end, and very high end products. Again, not talking about the Blowtorch specifically. I can't comment on the Blowtorch as I have never even seen one before. But I can comment from many years in audio service and earlier years as a salesman selling higher end products.

I think that the point being made is that the best audio devices are not always the most expensive. In fact, paying extremely high dollars almost guarantees a poorly designed piece of equipment! By the same token, you have to spend beyond some minimal number of dollars in order to get your money's worth. At either extreme, service is usually a nightmare as well.

For what it's worth, Chris

[Joshua_G]

Originally Posted by anatech

The one thing we must accept is that in the audio business, it's as much about the sound quality as the appearance and any other marketing advantages. Once you pass a certain level in price, pure performance may actually become irrelevant to some extent.

This may be true for some people, definitely not for all. There are people out there who are only concerned in sound quality (me included). Price of quality (combined with price of marketing) is the painful part of the deal.

Originally Posted by anatech

I think that the point being made is that the best audio devices are not always the most expensive. In fact, paying extremely high dollars almost guarantees a poorly designed piece of equipment!

Do you have concrete examples, or is it only musing, some thoughts flying around without any basis in reality?

[john curl]

Please don't argue with the 'moderators' Joshua, you always 'lose' and it annoys the moderators. ;-)

[anatech]

Hi Joshua,

This may be true for some people, definitely not for all.

True, but the bulk of the market is represented by my comment. I spent years selling better audio gear to people. Many times it came down to how it looked or what the ad copy was saying (true or false).

If you do get someone's attention, you can usually make a case for the better equipment. That's as long as it doesn't cost that much more.

There are people out there who are only concerned in sound quality (me included). Price of quality (combined with price of marketing) is the painful part of the deal.

That includes me as well, and probably most other people here. But the very fact you are posting here pre-qualifies the audience to a great extent.

Do you have concrete examples, or is it only musing, some thoughts flying around without any basis in reality?

Well, I really do. Although I must say that I don't care for the tone or implicated idea of your post. Would you care to explain your comments?

I will say that I can not mention some examples I would otherwise love to single out, but there are some.

Try early Bryston, Proximity amplifiers, Audio Alchemy, Counterpoint ... hmmm, pro maybe? Stewart. There are many, many more. I should point out that Sony's ES line can be fun (and Sony hides problems and will even release mis-information to cover things up). There are some higher end CD players that are actually less than $500 units in a fancy case - with features removed!! Car audio is rife with expensive junk as well.

Any good audio service person can easily point out many complete rip-offs. This is not difficult to see once the covers are off if you understand what makes a good electrical design and good construction.

I could name many more I guess, and I'm sure most of us could do the same. But the higher the price tag is, the more terrible units there seems to be per unit sold.

Even Revox had some real duds in the last years. The 251 and 242 are both good examples of this (heat, excessive voltage across adjacent traces, traces far too thin). The early CD players had a few real gems of design practice as well. Minor ones that can take out the laser diode, good thing they were not expensive problems (satire). Studer had issues with the reel motor drive on some 2" 24 trk machines also. Those cost .... like more than a car. Same problems with early CD players (no surprise there).

I also know of many well regarded (for sound quality) audio devices. The original NAIT for one. NAD and many more that I'd have to research to remember their names. One has regulated power supplies, runs under biased and is quasi complementary. No shortage of units placed higher in audio circles that turn out to be simply poor designs.

Many of the designers for problematic equipment really knew better, or should have. Other designers really just ignored good design practices and helpful advice. As usual, the customers paid the price for this.

Now, have I said anything you disagree with Joshua? If so, please explain and let us know how closely you were able to inspect the design in question.

-Chris

[anatech]

Hi John,
No one is here to win arguments. I'm only concerned that Joshua may have a valid concern. Besides, I am clearly posting as a member who has both experience and opinions to share, just like most other members do.

After all, Joshua has years of studio experience and has been able to work with advanced sound equipment. It would be nice to have his view on these matters.

John,
Do you have much experience with North American J-Fet types? I've been looking into sourcing transistors from local (sort of) suppliers. Have you looked at the J202? Fairchild lists it while On Semi looks like they are getting out of the signal J-Fet business all together.

If you have other good suggestions for North American part numbers, please mention them. TO-92 case is preferred for me right now.

-Chris

[john curl]

Your question is reasonable, but the answer is difficult. Most manufacturers of these older jfets are going out of production. I have used this part type for decades, but National and Siliconix who once made them (I'm pretty sure), are not making them, anymore.