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Old 31st October 2010, 02:33 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by gaetan8888 View Post
Years ago it was the amps "specs war" and most was showing ultra low distortions figures but they was sounding cold and harsh.
Gaetan
Can you explain how you conclude that it sounds cold and harsh?
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Old 31st October 2010, 02:38 AM   #32
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Do you want to hear a NAKSA? I could arrange that. This would put paid to speculation; nothing like a private audition in one own system, eh?
Yes please thats the only way i would gain any understanding of what it can do. Its all very well reading reviews but i would need first hand experience in my own room. Otherwise it is too expensive to risk buying. I wonder if it could be arranged for me?
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Old 31st October 2010, 03:35 AM   #33
AKSA is offline AKSA  Australia
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Not in the UK, Prof, too far and too costly. At least $USD400 round trip, assuming you would want the modules, not the finished product - which I don't make anyway.

Besides, what happens if you want one? It would be a very painful experience for you, judging by the AKSA experience.

Hugh
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Old 31st October 2010, 04:19 AM   #34
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Hi Gaetan, 'nice to correspond at last as I appreciate your posts with helpful comments and assistance. Yes, I have difficulty as we all do with selecting equipment to buy. Everything I think I might like is extraordinarily expensive so I don't even get to audition it but I gamble with compromise products and even buy because others rate things highly, to use them like models for measurement and comparison. This is blind purchasing, with little prior evaluation. An example is a Rotel 1060 amp which was a 5 star rater in the UK some years back. No, It's pretty ordinary actually and has a presentation similar to some much older magazine project kits here in Oz. It features a characteristic mirrored, thermally coupled input topology, as did much of their gear for many years. The point is that the amps I built easily knocked it off the shelf. A few people agreed and I made a little money, had some fun and sold the amp too.

I have agonised over CD player purchases since they were invented. Wisely, I bought cheap and often, through the early years and only more recently have gone up-market as quality up-sampling types have become affordable. I settled for a fire-sale priced Musical Fidelity A5 "Toob" job eventually and am generally satisfied with the straight audio but that manufacturer's reliability problems are sadly still with them.

Hugh
Naksa: A generous and considerate offer. I have not speculated here or elsewhere on its undoubtedly fine musical qualities. Regrettably, I cannot take it up and I mean that quite sincerely. Thank you, nonetheless, for the courtesy.
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Last edited by Ian Finch; 31st October 2010 at 04:22 AM. Reason: redundant
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Old 31st October 2010, 05:05 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by AKSA View Post
Not in the UK, Prof, too far and too costly. At least $USD400 round trip, assuming you would want the modules, not the finished product - which I don't make anyway.

Besides, what happens if you want one? It would be a very painful experience for you, judging by the AKSA experience.

Hugh
Hugh
You have mentioned in the past that you design your amps in such a way that the distortion has a specific profile and this is more significant than the total value of distortion. Speakers contain crossovers which alter the relationship between the harmonics with respect to time. How does this affect the profile?
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Old 31st October 2010, 05:10 AM   #36
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Hello Ian and all others guys.

Here a bit how I gain my audio gears experiences and few things about audio.

I was initiated to high-end audio systems in the 80's, and since I listened (but did never buy because to costly) to a lot of very costly sound systems. I also have the chance to have many musicians friends, both in classical and jazz musics, so I ad many occasions to listen to live musics concerts, it's important to listen to live concerts once a wild.

In the 80's I was reading La Revue du Son and others audio magazines audio gears listening tests and later find out that many times they was just selling those audio gears using listening tests. But I've learn a lot about audio amps testing and thd spectrum from Jean Hiraga in La Revue du Son magazine, so there was some usefulls things in those magazines. There is some rare small audio magazines in the web are honest and reliables.

I agree that it's not always easy to explain a music listening experience of a amp, speakers or cd player and it's not all guys who ad listen to many amps, so in many forum you need to read a lot so to be sure that the listening experience of mister x or y guys are reliable. But you alway find guys that you can rely.

Since many years I go to the Montreal Audio Show, there I've eard amps costing up $150,000 , but only a handfull was deserving my attention, so there was somes amps who give me a true living and "toe taping" musical experience.

I remember the first time, many years ago, I eard a Musical Fidelity Nu Vista M3 integrate amp with Monitor Audio speakers, it was very nice sounding.

We have to use some common terms in audio like toe taping, open soundstage, fast amp, warm, etc... we just need to know which guys used them with honesty, experiences and knowledges.

Since the 80's I buy only used audio gears, and since about two years I design my own diy amps and modified all the used cd players I buy.

Now I use one of my diy amps, a modified Adcom GCD-600 cd player, Dynaudio speakers from a friend and a 25 years old Oracle turntable. And I also have an old Pioneer tube amp, a Radford HD-250 and few others recents audio gears and audio kits and somes "old audio gears".

The total of all my audio gears cost me less than a high-end amp that you see in most high-end audio stores.

Btw, I know Hugh since few years, his knowledge and experiences help me a lot and I've learn a lot from him, we should agree with him that an amps should give a true pleasure in listening experiences and he know how to design amps who give real blessing in musical listening experiences.

Bye

Gaetan

Last edited by gaetan8888; 31st October 2010 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 1st November 2010, 02:40 AM   #37
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Hugh
Are you serious about Halcro? More to the point, is anybody?

THD is one of a few technically meaningful and repeatable measurements that can be made on audio electronics. It simply establishes the limits to the fidelity of the electrical signal output to the electrical signal input of a device. In an abstract sense, its minimal level may be compared with maximum acceleration rates in motor vehicles. We may never have any real need for either quality in full measure but a poor performance of either will cripple the device utterly.

With AKSAs, you have elected to exploit rather than minimise residual distortion which is most evident in amplifiers, no? It seems odd then, that you don't revel in the resulting institutional opposition which, ironically, is your lifeblood. The unfortunate sneers from individuals here on the SS Forum are just the social backwash of such a standoff. This is a regrettable herd characteristic IMO of many who belong to associations, fan clubs etc. regardless of what qualifications they may have.

I stand by what I said about specmanship; in the wider public eye it's dead, man! With an audio world rapidly flooding with class D, H and chipamps, the need now to ignore THD as a worsening flaw is clearly more pressing. Only the institutional types are interested as, dear friend, are you. Very interested; to the point of using instruments to determine it and its spectral components like anyone else experimenting at an advanced level. Let us be honest in at least the basic issues of audio electronics on the bench.

Having said that, I trust you don't misinterpret this as provocative. I may disagree with some of your views and take you to task on their veracity but I agree wholeheartedly with your methodology, dedication to development, attitude as a manufacturer and preparedness to participate in Forums such as this one.. There are probably lots of other things to agree on too, like accelerating motor vehicles, but not here in Naksaland.
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Old 1st November 2010, 03:47 AM   #38
Bigun is online now Bigun  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Finch View Post
With an audio world rapidly flooding with class D, H and chipamps, the need now to ignore THD as a worsening flaw is clearly more pressing.
I don't know much about the audio world, but in the world of the 'most people' who spend money on music reproduction I don't actually think they pay ANY attention whatsoever to THD. Not one iota. I'm actually curious who it is that does pay attention to THD - it seems to me that this has become a bogeyman for people to rant over but I don't think it's real. I've only ever seen THD mentioned in some magazines. My opinion - nobody pays any attention to it. Those that choose hi-fi from magazines pay more attention to the review not the spec. Those that buy hi-fi from their local store pay attention to many other things including the brand name, the price, how good it looks, how many Watts it says on the lid, etc. Who pays attention to THD ?????

sorry for the OT, but it seems to be relevant from the perspective that NAKSA is not marketed based on it's THD performance and that to me, means Hugh is more up to date with his customer base than most others.
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Last edited by Bigun; 1st November 2010 at 03:54 AM.
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Old 1st November 2010, 06:39 AM   #39
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THD is still included in the specification for most commercial audio equipment and I don't have any commercial audio products where it's not included. What the buyer makes of it is up to themselves.

The only time I look at THD numbers is when it's used with the power output such as 40W @ 10% THD vs 40W @ 1% THD vs 40W @ 0.1% THD etc. At least it gives some indication on the equipment's useful power output capabilites but unfortunately not how it sounds.

For all Hugh's amps I've built, the choice has been based on potential sound quality on offer and not on specifications other than the power rating at a given impedance which is important for me. For me on most occasions the potential sound was realised on completion of the build and burn in period.
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Old 1st November 2010, 07:21 AM   #40
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Hello

The only usefull thd specs are the thd spectrum, seeing that spectrum give a good ideas of the type of distortions of the amp and that's more important than the percentage of thd. But still only the listening are the final test.

Bye

Gaetan

Last edited by gaetan8888; 1st November 2010 at 07:23 AM.
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