So I’m looking for a tweeter to replace my initial design for a large high power 3-way studio monitor main.
The bass is a 12” Fane pro driver.
The midrange is also a Fane; 5” studio.
Initially I planned to use a Fane 1” compression driver in a small waveguide but
A) I’m unable to source the Fane CDs anywhere but in UK which would amplify the cost dramatically, and
B) I cannot find a waveguide small enough and still rugged enough to fit the baffle and carry the weight of a solid CD.
My backup option is to use a leftover Eminence APT50 but I don’t like the plastic horn, I’d prefer something aluminum and I’m unsure about its performance.
Also it is a tad to big.
So I’m considering a plan C then; a traditional tweeter of small footprint.
But I have some requirements:
Any ideas?
The bass is a 12” Fane pro driver.
The midrange is also a Fane; 5” studio.
Initially I planned to use a Fane 1” compression driver in a small waveguide but
A) I’m unable to source the Fane CDs anywhere but in UK which would amplify the cost dramatically, and
B) I cannot find a waveguide small enough and still rugged enough to fit the baffle and carry the weight of a solid CD.
My backup option is to use a leftover Eminence APT50 but I don’t like the plastic horn, I’d prefer something aluminum and I’m unsure about its performance.
Also it is a tad to big.
So I’m considering a plan C then; a traditional tweeter of small footprint.
But I have some requirements:
- no bigger than 7cm diameter, preferably a neo magnet
- metal grill for protection
- slightly hornloaded is preferred to control the directivity and boost the sensitivity
- high power high sensitivity from 3kHz
- proven vendor, spare parts/replaceability
- sweet sound but details are more important / honest revealing
- no plastic chassis
- easy mounting cutout
- cheap
Any ideas?
The Morel CAT378 would seem to fit a lot of the requirements except maybe the grill and possibly sensitivity. It is a 90mm cutout as well.
Another may be the Scanspeak H2606/9200 but this is a 104mm cutout As is the Seas 27TBCD/GB-DXT H1499.
I think getting a tweeter with a faceplate less than 70mm cutout will be challenging. My Morel ET448 are 72mm but not hornload.
Finally the Tymphany OX20 is a “nude” tweeter at 19mm with OD of 30mm that you could build into a waveguide.
Another may be the Scanspeak H2606/9200 but this is a 104mm cutout As is the Seas 27TBCD/GB-DXT H1499.
I think getting a tweeter with a faceplate less than 70mm cutout will be challenging. My Morel ET448 are 72mm but not hornload.
Finally the Tymphany OX20 is a “nude” tweeter at 19mm with OD of 30mm that you could build into a waveguide.
So my epic voyage evolving the perfect retro modern monkey coffin continues.
Story:
Inspired by the classic vintage speakers Tannoy Little Red & Gold Monitor(s), Klipsch Heresy, JBL 4312/L100, and the more recent and more applicable to this thread particularly, the JBL 4319, I’m now trying to up-the-game from 2-way to 3-way.
I've realized in my 5+ years quest that the end goal is increasingly more vague for every prototype and as the cost of this idiotic hobby is more and more difficult to argue I think I’m closing up on cabinets and drivers soon, and will enter crossover tuning and DSP for getting the results I want with what I currently have.
My most successful speaker so far was a Celestion coaxial in an oak cabinet using an Eminence stock crossover. This cabinet is exactly the same but the driver arrangement will be a 3-way system with Fane PA drivers. I’ve tried this before in a poplar ply cabinet using an Eminenxe horn mid/high combo instead but now aiming for a less PA sound.
As I’m still looking for a tweeter to fit I have not cut out the midrange and tweeter, and I’m using an Eden by Eminence bass driver with a Selenium CD while sourcing the missing parts just to try them out for an upcoming next project. Luckily all the bass drivers use the same cut outs and bolt diameter….
All in all, all my projects merge and mix and never completes and I’m losing track, but it’s great fun and learning.
Thought I just share a little of the build so far. I’ll post more pics as I find the tweeter I want.
Drivers:
Planned bass driver: Fane Pro 12-500
Current bass driver: Eden 12 something (from a sell out)
Planned midrange: Fane 5FRK Studio
Planned tweeter: to be decided, possibly
Eminence APT50 or ASD1001
Current tweeter: Selenium 220Ti in a Emience APT200 horn (if I remember correctly)
Crossover at the moment is a stock Eminence 1,6kHz which doesn’t fit as well. I plan to try the 2,5cx from the Celestion build in a few days.
Cabinet details:
Double MDF removable baffles 58x36cm
Inner depth 30cm, outer depth 40cm
Story:
Inspired by the classic vintage speakers Tannoy Little Red & Gold Monitor(s), Klipsch Heresy, JBL 4312/L100, and the more recent and more applicable to this thread particularly, the JBL 4319, I’m now trying to up-the-game from 2-way to 3-way.
I've realized in my 5+ years quest that the end goal is increasingly more vague for every prototype and as the cost of this idiotic hobby is more and more difficult to argue I think I’m closing up on cabinets and drivers soon, and will enter crossover tuning and DSP for getting the results I want with what I currently have.
My most successful speaker so far was a Celestion coaxial in an oak cabinet using an Eminence stock crossover. This cabinet is exactly the same but the driver arrangement will be a 3-way system with Fane PA drivers. I’ve tried this before in a poplar ply cabinet using an Eminenxe horn mid/high combo instead but now aiming for a less PA sound.
As I’m still looking for a tweeter to fit I have not cut out the midrange and tweeter, and I’m using an Eden by Eminence bass driver with a Selenium CD while sourcing the missing parts just to try them out for an upcoming next project. Luckily all the bass drivers use the same cut outs and bolt diameter….
All in all, all my projects merge and mix and never completes and I’m losing track, but it’s great fun and learning.
Thought I just share a little of the build so far. I’ll post more pics as I find the tweeter I want.
Drivers:
Planned bass driver: Fane Pro 12-500
Current bass driver: Eden 12 something (from a sell out)
Planned midrange: Fane 5FRK Studio
Planned tweeter: to be decided, possibly
Eminence APT50 or ASD1001
Current tweeter: Selenium 220Ti in a Emience APT200 horn (if I remember correctly)
Crossover at the moment is a stock Eminence 1,6kHz which doesn’t fit as well. I plan to try the 2,5cx from the Celestion build in a few days.
Cabinet details:
Double MDF removable baffles 58x36cm
Inner depth 30cm, outer depth 40cm
Today I did some testing and small changes to the temporary setup. The 1,6kHz crossover doesn’t work very well nor did the Selenium in the Eminence APT200S horn.
Well to my ears, no measurement.
So I replaced the crossover with the 2,5kHz used on the Celestion coax as planned and I replaced the horn and driver with Eminence ASD1001 driver and APT150S flare.
The result is decent.
Still bright though, treble need some taming, but I’m positively surprised by the Eden bass driver, it seems very capable in a setup like this.
I have not attached the rear baffle yet so it’s free air and no bass ports yet. Plan to do this next.
Also I’m now thinking about getting a larger horn for this arrangement and re-think the whole 3-way concept as a floor stander it seems to perform better with a horn resting on the cabinet like this.
I plan to test with APT50 tomorrow.
But now I don’t know what to do with the Fane bass and mid, and the selenium driver.
So many detours.
Are there any nice larger aluminum flares for 1” drivers out there?
Well to my ears, no measurement.
So I replaced the crossover with the 2,5kHz used on the Celestion coax as planned and I replaced the horn and driver with Eminence ASD1001 driver and APT150S flare.
The result is decent.
Still bright though, treble need some taming, but I’m positively surprised by the Eden bass driver, it seems very capable in a setup like this.
I have not attached the rear baffle yet so it’s free air and no bass ports yet. Plan to do this next.
Also I’m now thinking about getting a larger horn for this arrangement and re-think the whole 3-way concept as a floor stander it seems to perform better with a horn resting on the cabinet like this.
I plan to test with APT50 tomorrow.
But now I don’t know what to do with the Fane bass and mid, and the selenium driver.
So many detours.
Are there any nice larger aluminum flares for 1” drivers out there?
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You're about to make a mistake. I hope this proves helpful:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...esign-collaborative-econowave-speaker.150939/
https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/hpm-econo-redo-aka-kpm-10-0.185752/
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/is-the-econowave-dead.809373/
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...esign-collaborative-econowave-speaker.150939/
https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/hpm-econo-redo-aka-kpm-10-0.185752/
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/is-the-econowave-dead.809373/
Care to summarize a short version of the 1000 pages and what the mistake Im about to do is?
I see everywhere that everyone loves the Selenium but personally I find it ringing.
Maybe I am very sensitive in an area where it has a resonance or something.
At this point I'm on a crossroad.
2-way with top mounted horn (like Im testing now), or 3-way JBL4319-style.
The first would fit the living room great placed on the floor as in the pictures, the second would be nice in the studio on a desk.
In both cases I'm not sure what drivers to use: Fane or Eden bass, Eminence or Selenium trebles.
And what waveguides. So many combination options.
Ill let this sink a little while completing the rear of the box with bass ports etc.
Need to get the bass right first before I can trust the Edens to go on with this.
The Fane is proven previously with ASD1001/APT150S so that is a safe plan B.
I see everywhere that everyone loves the Selenium but personally I find it ringing.
Maybe I am very sensitive in an area where it has a resonance or something.
At this point I'm on a crossroad.
2-way with top mounted horn (like Im testing now), or 3-way JBL4319-style.
The first would fit the living room great placed on the floor as in the pictures, the second would be nice in the studio on a desk.
In both cases I'm not sure what drivers to use: Fane or Eden bass, Eminence or Selenium trebles.
And what waveguides. So many combination options.
Ill let this sink a little while completing the rear of the box with bass ports etc.
Need to get the bass right first before I can trust the Edens to go on with this.
The Fane is proven previously with ASD1001/APT150S so that is a safe plan B.
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check out this threads:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ter-without-titanium-and-without-horn.155885/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/best-compression-drivers-today-2022.382609/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...on-driver-may-2020-suggestions-please.353564/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/best-midrange-to-pair-with-beyma-tpl-150.197558/
Which of the Fane Studio 5 under
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ge-model-studio-5m-100-db-and-92-5-db.206391/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...e-by-which-commercial-studio-monitors.194798/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/fane-studio-5frk-obsolete-or-not.396041/
do you have ?
I know and like the 5M - also good for full range applications without tweeter.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ter-without-titanium-and-without-horn.155885/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/best-compression-drivers-today-2022.382609/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...on-driver-may-2020-suggestions-please.353564/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/best-midrange-to-pair-with-beyma-tpl-150.197558/
Which of the Fane Studio 5 under
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ge-model-studio-5m-100-db-and-92-5-db.206391/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...e-by-which-commercial-studio-monitors.194798/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/fane-studio-5frk-obsolete-or-not.396041/
do you have ?
I know and like the 5M - also good for full range applications without tweeter.
Maybe you are a victim of HOM ?? (higher order modes , coined by Earl Geddes)
I hate anything that resonates , so avoiding most problems .
Delays are another problem ...
And what about reflections?
Generating interferences and standing waves ...
CAB sound? (a hell of demons)
Your room?
Listening setup?
Don't forget ELC !! (equal loudness contours)
And HRTF !!!
So - Loud Speaker Design is a life-long learning process!
But I'm happy with my daily dose of LSD
ps .. https://www.gedlee.com/
downloads/PDF ...
https://www.gedlee.com/Books/AudioTransducers.aspx
I hate anything that resonates , so avoiding most problems .
Delays are another problem ...
And what about reflections?
Generating interferences and standing waves ...
CAB sound? (a hell of demons)
Your room?
Listening setup?
Don't forget ELC !! (equal loudness contours)
And HRTF !!!
So - Loud Speaker Design is a life-long learning process!
But I'm happy with my daily dose of LSD
ps .. https://www.gedlee.com/
downloads/PDF ...
https://www.gedlee.com/Books/AudioTransducers.aspx
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FANE's Studio 5FRK I also know and used it a few years ago as a replacement for old Focal chassis with Kevlar cone (JM lab ARIA, point source series) because the basket was identical in size.
Sound was slightly different, but a low cost alternative to a voice coil repair of the genuine drivers from Focal.
Since currently no supplier has it in their speaker chassis driver range anymore, I suspect that it is obsolete - go to
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/fane-studio-5frk-obsolete-or-not.396041/
But I don't know this exactly.
P.S.: Ringradiators like the Beymas from post #8 or this one under
https://en.audiofanzine.com/tweeter-compression-driver/fostex/ft-50-h/
have a typical sound due to their directional radiation (beam angle is very narrow).
Depending on the room and the kind of music, this is sometimes an advantage, but in normal living spaces with short reverberation times, it is a disadvantage for most users. An advantage in general is the higher max. undistorted SPL in opposite to a classic dome tweeter.
Sound was slightly different, but a low cost alternative to a voice coil repair of the genuine drivers from Focal.
Since currently no supplier has it in their speaker chassis driver range anymore, I suspect that it is obsolete - go to
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/fane-studio-5frk-obsolete-or-not.396041/
But I don't know this exactly.
P.S.: Ringradiators like the Beymas from post #8 or this one under
https://en.audiofanzine.com/tweeter-compression-driver/fostex/ft-50-h/
have a typical sound due to their directional radiation (beam angle is very narrow).
Depending on the room and the kind of music, this is sometimes an advantage, but in normal living spaces with short reverberation times, it is a disadvantage for most users. An advantage in general is the higher max. undistorted SPL in opposite to a classic dome tweeter.
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Already pointed out: #3, link#2 - only 8 pages. Only.
As for the error: in this particular case - a waste of money and time. Nothing more.
1000 pages? Don't tell me you're afraid. OK, read only the odd numbered pages, it will be faster... No no, just kidding
! Anyway, it's good to read.??? Dunno.... complete mess. On average, how long does it take you to read a 1000 pages? You were pretty quick to find ''the answer''. ''Selenium", is that the problem? Let's not fool ourselves - nice things cost money. Man, are you kidding us? I try to be tactful and say things kindly, but if you ask for my opinion, I will give it to you.
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In my opinion this aspect makes your project difficult.
Compression drivers/horns tend to have response anomalies that have to be corrected if you are seeking a neutral presentation. One of the larger issues being rising response with decreasing frequency in many, and this is different for different horns/waveguides and different compression drivers. If you are trying to use off-the-shelf crossovers with non-specified drivers and horns the results are going to be pretty random.
Off-the-shelf pro audio crossovers also tend to be kind of basic. They'll protect the drivers and give a reasonable response with the intended drivers, but they tend to be more of a PA system kind of solution, not necessarily an audiophile or studio monitor level of performance.
I can't tell what you are ultimately trying to do with passive crossovers and what you are trying to do active/DSP. Acoustic measurements would make life a lot easier in either case though. Short of that, an analog equalizer can help tuning, since it gives instant response, which some DSPs lack. With a neutral reference to compare to, an unruly speaker can be tamed by ear, but without measurements it is harder and more likely to devolve into extended tail chasing if you don't have significant experience.
There are other complexities, but I don't want to ramble on. Just hoping this nudges the discussion onto a more productive tack.