Silmic II’s sound like hell to me. One of the worst. Followed up by FC’s. People use these to try and make super dull speakers sound like something but it’s just a deeper hole of worse. OSCONs can be used to tame high frequencies but ultimately may not sound right.
GVD’s are a pretty well rounded cap.
GVD’s are a pretty well rounded cap.
The amount of hours I've put into it is pretty crazy. I don't mind sparring someone else that effort.
Yes, if they sound bad, look at the circuit and conditions. You should not hear a capacitor that doesn't develop a signal voltage across it. If it does, it is either in a filter circuit, or sized too small. Impedance matters obviously.
People will argue this until the cows come home. I get it.
Now to inject some common sense. Looking at nicoch58's readings, you can't hear this stuff at -90 dB for starters. At 100 Hz there is obviously significant current causing a voltage across the capacitor. At -40 dB and 100 Hz, I bet the speaker is distorting more, and you likely will not notice it in music material. Who knows about our own hearing mechanism (I have not studied this - just a question). It is too easy to set up a test and measure things (I do), but setting up the test so it is representative of actual performance can be tricky. The results are not valid if you get this wrong.
Finally, often we end up splitting hairs with distortion tests. Sure we all want the best. I do - within reason! At what cost for what benefit do we take this? Some parts are so large they create other issues, so it is a balance. That is called "engineering", balancing benefits against problems and cost. Cost is a factor within reason and you determine what the limits are. I'm not suggesting you go cheap, just use your head to determine what small improvements are worth the difference in cost.
Now for the basic fact. A good manufacturer generally uses good quality parts (say Marantz) and replacing them blindly absolutely will not improve performance, measured or otherwise. Other things do. Take a Pioneer where the parts are all really low quality (even the damned resistors), replacing those can make a marked improvement as well as fixing faults. So it depends on the equipment you are working on. I've been doing this for over 45 years and also studying the entire question of what makes a real improvement. I am careful with a client's money while delivering results for demanding individuals. I do this by testing before and after results after various changes. Capacitor types are at the bottom of the list for effective changes unless they are the problem.
Those who only use their ears haven't a clue, we are not walking test instruments. Worse yet, ideas in our heads will over-ride what we actually hear. This has been shown countless times and is called "expectation bias". THis affects many different kinds of tests (taste tests come to mind). Even out mood and level of alertness will affect our subjective opinion. In cases the differences we hear are real and consistent, but those are large differences and are always confirmed by testing results if you are looking at he right things. There is a skill in that, and practice.
All I am really saying is that you should use common sense along with considering things practically. I know what I said is wildly unpopular with those who are convinced they can hear things we can't test (wake up, this isn't the 80's anymore folks!!!). Today we easily test things beyond a human's physical ability to perceive. I'm sorry, but that is a fact. But this capability can lead us to chase things that simply do not matter because we can't possibly hear them. Some of us just want to know we have the best, and that's okay. Just don't put that on people who are being reasonable. Practically there is no one best capacitor or capacitor type. It really depends on the job and circuit mare than anything. Even then, often the differences are simply not audible except in circumstances where the part is used in a way where it can affect the signal. Low gain, no feedback circuits (single ended might be the worst) fit in this category. In those cases, you are merely selecting the part for the sound you like. Okay, knock yourself out! That is an imperfect situation to begin with. For for the bulk of well designed circuitry, individual parts do not affect distortion and sound quality by design. A few can, but capacitors used for coupling will not if they are of good quality and not defective.
-Chris
People will argue this until the cows come home. I get it.
Now to inject some common sense. Looking at nicoch58's readings, you can't hear this stuff at -90 dB for starters. At 100 Hz there is obviously significant current causing a voltage across the capacitor. At -40 dB and 100 Hz, I bet the speaker is distorting more, and you likely will not notice it in music material. Who knows about our own hearing mechanism (I have not studied this - just a question). It is too easy to set up a test and measure things (I do), but setting up the test so it is representative of actual performance can be tricky. The results are not valid if you get this wrong.
Finally, often we end up splitting hairs with distortion tests. Sure we all want the best. I do - within reason! At what cost for what benefit do we take this? Some parts are so large they create other issues, so it is a balance. That is called "engineering", balancing benefits against problems and cost. Cost is a factor within reason and you determine what the limits are. I'm not suggesting you go cheap, just use your head to determine what small improvements are worth the difference in cost.
Now for the basic fact. A good manufacturer generally uses good quality parts (say Marantz) and replacing them blindly absolutely will not improve performance, measured or otherwise. Other things do. Take a Pioneer where the parts are all really low quality (even the damned resistors), replacing those can make a marked improvement as well as fixing faults. So it depends on the equipment you are working on. I've been doing this for over 45 years and also studying the entire question of what makes a real improvement. I am careful with a client's money while delivering results for demanding individuals. I do this by testing before and after results after various changes. Capacitor types are at the bottom of the list for effective changes unless they are the problem.
Those who only use their ears haven't a clue, we are not walking test instruments. Worse yet, ideas in our heads will over-ride what we actually hear. This has been shown countless times and is called "expectation bias". THis affects many different kinds of tests (taste tests come to mind). Even out mood and level of alertness will affect our subjective opinion. In cases the differences we hear are real and consistent, but those are large differences and are always confirmed by testing results if you are looking at he right things. There is a skill in that, and practice.
All I am really saying is that you should use common sense along with considering things practically. I know what I said is wildly unpopular with those who are convinced they can hear things we can't test (wake up, this isn't the 80's anymore folks!!!). Today we easily test things beyond a human's physical ability to perceive. I'm sorry, but that is a fact. But this capability can lead us to chase things that simply do not matter because we can't possibly hear them. Some of us just want to know we have the best, and that's okay. Just don't put that on people who are being reasonable. Practically there is no one best capacitor or capacitor type. It really depends on the job and circuit mare than anything. Even then, often the differences are simply not audible except in circumstances where the part is used in a way where it can affect the signal. Low gain, no feedback circuits (single ended might be the worst) fit in this category. In those cases, you are merely selecting the part for the sound you like. Okay, knock yourself out! That is an imperfect situation to begin with. For for the bulk of well designed circuitry, individual parts do not affect distortion and sound quality by design. A few can, but capacitors used for coupling will not if they are of good quality and not defective.
-Chris
Thanks @Mark Johnson ! I'll check those out, looks like Mouser has RNS which seem to be of the same line but lacking the long life spec.
Not 'lytics, but still worth a listen: the differences are NOT subtle.
Btw, the amp used has an awful tone, but it's a constant.
Btw, the amp used has an awful tone, but it's a constant.
To me these are the best PSU caps on the market today. The "audio" grade Mundorfs and Nichicons can't compare. The DNM has no sound signature but does the whole spectrum equally right where others highlight some parts. The soundstage is very big and the timing is spot on.
No, i don't did a blind trail with 50 or more people and i did not measure anything. My claims to some here are 100% subjective but i know they sound better to me and i hear differences in PSU caps.