Strange results. My original design ( #5164 ) or should I say lazy version is better! Using NE5532 and 10K 10K inverting buffer I have the best results. The JLH 1981 oscillator picks up hum and is very fussy. It also has slightly more distortion!!! With very fine tuning I might imagine the JLH could be made the best. This would include tuning the feedback for each frequency. Not so the lazy version.
To my mind the lazy version is fine 47 Hz to 22 kHz ( 680pF NPO 12K ). If tests done at 1kHz ( 10 nF 16 K ) and 22 kHz what you measure from a JLH amplifier should be what it is really doing. You will be able to infer the 47 Hz or whatever is correct but only to about 0.3%. It will be better in reality. I suspect that 0.3% will be 0.1% in real life. The 1 kHz should be OK to 0.03%. I supect the 10 kHz also if you do that one.
That previous post was the best 1981 JLH oscillator can do at high frequencies. After that the lazy version is much better!! I suspect to work well the JLH oscillator needs a resistor from input + to 0V. These also would need tuning for each frequency. As needs little proof easy can also be best.
To my mind the lazy version is fine 47 Hz to 22 kHz ( 680pF NPO 12K ). If tests done at 1kHz ( 10 nF 16 K ) and 22 kHz what you measure from a JLH amplifier should be what it is really doing. You will be able to infer the 47 Hz or whatever is correct but only to about 0.3%. It will be better in reality. I suspect that 0.3% will be 0.1% in real life. The 1 kHz should be OK to 0.03%. I supect the 10 kHz also if you do that one.
That previous post was the best 1981 JLH oscillator can do at high frequencies. After that the lazy version is much better!! I suspect to work well the JLH oscillator needs a resistor from input + to 0V. These also would need tuning for each frequency. As needs little proof easy can also be best.
I have a Ferrograph test set which gathers dust. It was good for about 0.05%. It was often used in Hi Fi News tests. It was my brothers prize piece of test gear.
I have been playing with the Elektor state variable filter. It is very tricky to use. I will build the ESP Audio version as it looks that it could beat the JLH Wien and be more usable. I can see with the Elector it gets state of the art 1 kHz for pennies. I did manage at get a rather weird and useful 10 kHz from it. The 1 kHz is about 2.25Vrms and the stable 10 kHz 6 Vrms. This seems to go with it being a phase shift rather than Q to have oscillation or a mixture that sets a stable output. Whilst 1 kHz is great 10 kHz is required. If using 27K R6 ( Elektor ) then I used 406R and 654R lamp feedback 1 and 10 K. I am using a 28V 40 mA lamps where Rcold is 62R.
https://www.elektormagazine.com/files/attachment/326
I have been playing with the Elektor state variable filter. It is very tricky to use. I will build the ESP Audio version as it looks that it could beat the JLH Wien and be more usable. I can see with the Elector it gets state of the art 1 kHz for pennies. I did manage at get a rather weird and useful 10 kHz from it. The 1 kHz is about 2.25Vrms and the stable 10 kHz 6 Vrms. This seems to go with it being a phase shift rather than Q to have oscillation or a mixture that sets a stable output. Whilst 1 kHz is great 10 kHz is required. If using 27K R6 ( Elektor ) then I used 406R and 654R lamp feedback 1 and 10 K. I am using a 28V 40 mA lamps where Rcold is 62R.
https://www.elektormagazine.com/files/attachment/326
I have a 1.5 watt USB DAC that runs into a Fane 15-500WRMS.
Just about loud enough for a living room.
It's a 10-15W solid -state power amplifier. Why would it not drive any load within the impedance range you adapt it to? The stupid parts are either how large the speakers are, how loud they still won't go in their intended application and the likely poor sound quality if you are using full-range PA, DJ etc. speakers for home hi-fi.
Electrovoice once made nice pro. monitoring speakers that were much more suitable for hifi. They still make some very fine pro. speakers with around 135dB SPL too. I think I'd look there before considering bargain brands as suitable for hifi.
Electrovoice once made nice pro. monitoring speakers that were much more suitable for hifi. They still make some very fine pro. speakers with around 135dB SPL too. I think I'd look there before considering bargain brands as suitable for hifi.
Let me elaborate - in my head, it still makes sense (a lot of stuff do, that doesn't mean it does anywhere else btw. 
)
I'm currently restoring a set of Cerwin Vega S1s. I picked them up from FB Marketplace for silly money (US$ 23) - not because I'm a CV fan, far from it, but they were there, they were cheap, and I like to restore stuff - so I thought, "why not". I actually almost left them, so bad is the state of one of the woofers (One has been reconed, the other is original and in a bad shape).
But the more I've read on the S1s, the happier I am with my purchase. Apparently, they are pretty far removed from the horror stories one hear of CVs* and actually sound very very nice whether it's classical, rock or jazz (with the added ability to be LOUD).
* that may or may not be true, as said, never been a fan so have not bothered giving them any real attention nor listen-
Now - for speculation (and some semi-racist generalization ) - If one considers the segment buying Cerwin Vegas, one could speculate, that watt is a selling point when they're buying an amp to power them (which makes sense**). Now, if that speculation holds true (watt > musicality), and a lot of people still say that they are some of the best sounding speakers they have heard, they must do something right.
** I'm one of them - I plan on using 2 x 2200PE bridged once done - because I have them, so because I can. Not because it makes sense in an apartment.
Now - consider this: First post in this thread (which intrigued me) and it's praise for the 10w JLH and it's musicality paired with what a lot of people says is the best CV speaker they have ever heard - which is also semi easy driven with great efficiency! What could possibly go wrong?...
)I'm currently restoring a set of Cerwin Vega S1s. I picked them up from FB Marketplace for silly money (US$ 23) - not because I'm a CV fan, far from it, but they were there, they were cheap, and I like to restore stuff - so I thought, "why not". I actually almost left them, so bad is the state of one of the woofers (One has been reconed, the other is original and in a bad shape).
But the more I've read on the S1s, the happier I am with my purchase. Apparently, they are pretty far removed from the horror stories one hear of CVs* and actually sound very very nice whether it's classical, rock or jazz (with the added ability to be LOUD).
* that may or may not be true, as said, never been a fan so have not bothered giving them any real attention nor listen-
Now - for speculation (and some semi-racist generalization
) - If one considers the segment buying Cerwin Vegas, one could speculate, that watt is a selling point when they're buying an amp to power them (which makes sense**). Now, if that speculation holds true (watt > musicality), and a lot of people still say that they are some of the best sounding speakers they have heard, they must do something right.** I'm one of them - I plan on using 2 x 2200PE bridged once done - because I have them, so because I can. Not because it makes sense in an apartment.
Now - consider this: First post in this thread (which intrigued me) and it's praise for the 10w JLH and it's musicality paired with what a lot of people says is the best CV speaker they have ever heard - which is also semi easy driven with great efficiency! What could possibly go wrong?...
Let me elaborate - in my head, it still makes sense (a lot of stuff do, that doesn't mean it does anywhere else btw.
I'm currently restoring a set of Cerwin Vega S1s. I picked them up from FB Marketplace for silly money (US$ 23) - not because I'm a CV fan, far from it, but they were there, they were cheap, and I like to restore stuff - so I thought, "why not". I actually almost left them, so bad is the state of one of the woofers (One has been reconed, the other is original and in a bad shape).
But the more I've read on the S1s, the happier I am with my purchase. Apparently, they are pretty far removed from the horror stories one hear of CVs* and actually sound very very nice whether it's classical, rock or jazz (with the added ability to be LOUD).
* that may or may not be true, as said, never been a fan so have not bothered giving them any real attention nor listen-
Now - for speculation (and some semi-racist generalization
** I'm one of them - I plan on using 2 x 2200PE bridged once done - because I have them, so because I can. Not because it makes sense in an apartment.
Now - consider this: First post in this thread (which intrigued me) and it's praise for the 10w JLH and it's musicality paired with what a lot of people says is the best CV speaker they have ever heard - which is also semi easy driven with great efficiency! What could possibly go wrong?...
[Additional (as I'm an idiot and apparently can not figure out to edit my post)]: I have not heard the S1s yet. As said, they're not in a good shape, so only checked that all drivers work - so for now, it's pure guess work.
I'd put those "bookshelf" speakers back on the market, pronto
Look at this: Cerwin Vega S-1 Speakers One Pair Finished Walnut Cabinets Collectors RARE FIND | eBay
Look at this: Cerwin Vega S-1 Speakers One Pair Finished Walnut Cabinets Collectors RARE FIND | eBay
That's a pretty bold statement there!
I think the $2,000 price tag is a figment of someones twisted imagination. In mint condition, with the original blue cones (I only have one of those unfortunately and a fubar voice coil to go along), I'm guessing $6-700 would be the absolute limit for these. (Still, as usual, the last idiot and so forth). For now, I'm mostly doing the restore out of pure interest (and because I like doing it), and if I like them, and they sound as nice as people say, I might keep them around for a bit.
With regards to building a better speaker. I'm good at taking things apart and ok'ish at putting them back together with small updates - but building from scratch is asking a bit much. This is also the reason I'm trawling through this thread looking for the post that says: "The idiots guide to building a 15w Class A amplifier" (preferably with a lot of pretty pictures).
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Steffen, since you are in Denmark, why not take a look here: DIY Loudspeaker Projects Troels Gravesen
I've seen some of Troels' work. He's really really good with his toys!.
I'm not really interested in building speakers pr se though. Right now, I'm very interested in listening to the S1s, as I've always, as said, steered clear of CVs in general. - And these are apparently quite unlike the CV reputation, and if they are, it would be fun to hear them powered by a low-wattage-musicality-in-focus, amplifier.
The musicality of this amp may have more to do with its topology than its power output. Amp builders have been trying to bridge this gap with transmitting triodes and large heatsinks for some time. The fact is that speakers were getting less efficient, but now there is a resurgence in efficient speakers among some DIYers.
I think the S1s are listed as 96dB/1w, so 10-15 watt of pure class A should be more than enough. And besides - if you're pushing your speakers to tinnitus inducing levels, can you tell the difference between a house worth of Krell watts and a bridged NAD 2200PE pushing 1500 cheap ones?
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I didn’t know what an S1 was so I searched it up. Wow, nice looking speaker and solid build. No wonder you like them, in fact I think you’re right on the money with your plans there. I also read somebody found benefit in updating the cross-over. Whether the JLH will be to your taste is something best learned by building one.
Oh, I also saw the specs for the S1 were 98dB but one never knows how accurate that is and some of these old drivers need a few watts to get into their stride before they sound their best if my memory of my old AR38’s are anything to go by.
Oh, I also saw the specs for the S1 were 98dB but one never knows how accurate that is and some of these old drivers need a few watts to get into their stride before they sound their best if my memory of my old AR38’s are anything to go by.
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They are fairly heavy one can say - so A+ for build quality at least
With regards to the filter, looking at some CV filters, it's actually close to being advanced - some CV's don't even have a coil for the woofer, they just let it roll off. The S1s have a real second order in place, so that says something - and of course they'll be updated:The parts that came out vs. the ones going back in. (Mundorf Plains have to be orders better than 40 year old "good enough" caps)
Time will tell if I like the JLH or not I guess - worst case, it'll be a learning experience. Haven't build anything from scratch, more or less, since my days as an apprentice which ended back in the mid 90's.
Of course - Krell was just a name I pulled out of thin air. I of course should've said, "as long as your amp isn't in the clipping area", but it's loud enough to cause tinnitus, at that level, can you tell the difference between 2 amps.
I just realized I'm on thin ice - because I think you might
(But would you care? )