GB for Virtins MI Pro for RTX6001 autoranging/autoscaling & for soundcard end users

[anatech]

Hi gpauk,
You don't. All you need to do is sign up for the base package and you can add packages when it comes time to actually order.

If it makes it any easier for you, I'm in for the pro level package along with the scheduling package (to perform a series of tests in order without having to launch each one). and the integration to the RTX-6001. To my mind, that is what I need and what will make the package the most useful. If I had no money problems I would for for the $450 option and buy it all.

-Chris

 

[MI Pro]

Apologies if this has already been answered - the thread is quite long now!
Surely, we only need to sign up to the base MI Pro GB now? We can decide what add-ons to order when Virtins open the GB sub site, and order them then. So why do I need to decide that now and bung it on the email...?
Thanks!

Dear gpauk,

Thanks for your question. We desired to have the MI Pro GB signup list with the addresses, email addresses, etc. so that we could have confidence in firm orders. You can decide up to the end of the MI Pro GB period (end of July 2018) which MI add-ons to purchase (if indeed you want any – you can simply order MI Pro by itself of course). You can change your mind by sending me an email prior to the end of July 2018 on the type of order you want, e.g., change from MI Pro + Device Test Plan add-on over to MI “full package” that has MI Pro + all MI add-ons, etc.). It is flexible.

The Virtins MI Pro GB website will be sent via email on 1 Aug 2018 to all the MI Pro GB individuals whom have sent the requested information, i.e., the URL to the Virtins domain ordering site setup for this. The vast majority of the 25 MI Pro GB purchases thus far have sent the requested information. Payments are due in full by all MI Pro GB’er to Virtins no later than 7 Aug 2018.

That’s just the way I’ve worked out how I want to run the MI Pro GB and I share every week an updated MI Pro GB master list with Virtins so they can see what sorts of orders we have commitments for. Again, there exists a lot more confidence in orders when individuals provide the requested information vs. just signing up via the diyaudio site via a posting.

The way I’ve chosen to run this MI Pro GB may be different than other diyaudio GBs you may have participated in the past on, but that’s okay, for anyone running such a GB is allowed to run it as they see fit. The requested information is not posted / shared with anyone besides Virtins Technology so there is no risk of spam emails, etc.

V/R,

MI Pro

 

[gpauk]

Hmm... so, those two answers contradict -- anatech says what I would expect - simply order the add-ons when it's time to order, but Mi Pro still says I have to decide before the ordering site opens:

You can change your mind by sending me an email prior to the end of July 2018 on the type of order you want, e.g., change from MI Pro + Device Test Plan add-on over to MI “full package” that has MI Pro + all MI add-ons, etc.). It is flexible.

This makes no sense, as the add-ons do not contribute to qualifying for the GB, or that's what the GB info says.

 

[anatech]

Hi gpauk,
I didn't mean to confuse the issue. The only important thing for you to do now is to sign up for the MI Pro. You can add packages to it when the time comes to actually place your order. My intention was to show you what I was going to go for, and how simple it really is. Since I have an RTX-6001, I need the integration which comes with the group buy orders. Then on top of that, the only critical thing for me is the device test plan. At any later date I can add another package and it will only cost me $10 more for not buying it during the group buy. Not enough for me to worry about if I discover I need another package. The critical thing is to get the MI Pro and integration during the group buy.

MI Pro can correct me, but I think it works like this. During the group buy, the integration will come with MI Pro. After the group buy it is treated like a separate package and will cost $100 more instead of being part of the MI Pro package you buy in the GB. The other packages sell for $100 after the GB, and $90 during the GB. So if I want two more packages (options) after the GB, it will only cost me $20 extra to add them later.

-Chris

 

[gpauk]

Yes, thanks for that. It's certainly a good deal. No problem, but I think it needed clarifying that if you want the discounted add ons you have to choose *now* (ie before Mi Pro's deadline) not at order time. Presumably any extras you want at order time, that you have not preselected, will not be discounted.
As I say, not a particular problem, just needed clarifying to me!

 

[Microfast]

1- anatech
2- kevinkr
3- lemon
4- PH104
5- douggoldberg
6- bk856er
7- mlloyd1
8- tjencks
9- agdr
10- waltzingbear
11- Dennis Hui
12- jwilhelm
13- 1audio (Demian)
14- soongsc
15- jhenderson01075
16- jazid
17- lbud4
18- diyaudnut
19- SilentGrace
20- acg
21- Ghianni
22- etlasr
23- B&W_arthur
24- markus22ch
25- niner
26- Microfast

I sees this GB only now: what email must I send for confirmation?

Thanks a lot ..

 

[MI Pro]

26- Microfast

I sees this GB only now: what email must I send for confirmation?

Thanks a lot ..

Dear Microfast,

Thank you for signing up for the MI Pro GB and your order number gives you a $20 USD discount off of the price of MI Pro as per my posting # 74. That same posting (i.e., # 74) also gives you the instructions on how to finish up the GB ordering processes. You can also email me at mi_pro AT aol DOT com if you have any questions on any of this as well. Welcome aboard the growing list of MI Pro GB’ers.

V/R,

MI Pro

 

[MI Pro]

Yes, thanks for that. It's certainly a good deal. No problem, but I think it needed clarifying that if you want the discounted add ons you have to choose *now* (ie before Mi Pro's deadline) not at order time. Presumably any extras you want at order time, that you have not preselected, will not be discounted.
As I say, not a particular problem, just needed clarifying to me!

Dear gpauk,

Thank you for your question. As of now, the answer is “yes,” you have to choose which MI add-ons you want to have before the end of the MI Pro GB deadline (end of July 2018) in order to get the 10% off per MI add-on and email that choice to my email at: mi_pro AT aol DOT com

Virtins and I have corresponded on this particular matter and for now, this is how the rules of the MI Pro GB are going, but it “may” be allowed to buy MI Pro add-ons during the 1st week of Aug 2018 at the 10% discounted rate, but for now, that’s not the official way forward.

Why the above policy you might wonder? Please remember that Virtins Technology had desired to get a minimum of 42 MI Pro GB orders in order to develop the API for the RTX6001 for the coding work is a time consuming affair. I was trying to see how close to the goal insofar as Virtins return on investment (ROI) we’re going to get, and the add-ons allow Virtins to have better visibility with respect to this ROI idea.

Some of the above has been admittedly superseded by other events, e.g., Virtins is not waiting for the MI Pro GB to finish to develop the custom API for the RTX6001 – that is ongoing now and will tentatively be released to the MI Pro GB beta team on or about 1 July 2018. Again, to reiterate this key point, Virtins is not waiting for the 42 MI Pro GB orders to come in, the API for the RTX6001 is a real thing that is happening as we speak and should be fully ready for release to all MI Pro GB’ers by the end of July 2018.

If you’re considering signing on, MI Pro GB discounts of $20 off the MI Pro are still open to you, i.e., orders # 21 through # 30 (and we’re now up to MI Pro GB order # 26 – four more $20 USD MI Pro discounts are still up for grabs). MI Pro GB order # 31 through # 40 will get a $10 USD discount, so now is the time to jump on board if you want the bigger discount.

Please feel free to ask any other questions you may have.

V/R,

MI Pro

 

[gpauk]

Thanks for the clarification!

If you’re considering signing on, MI Pro GB discounts of $20 off the MI Pro are still open to you, i.e., orders # 21 through # 30 (and we’re now up to MI Pro GB order # 26 – four more $20 USD MI Pro discounts are still up for grabs). MI Pro GB order # 31 through # 40 will get a $10 USD discount, so now is the time to jump on board if you want the bigger discount.

Ah - I didn't see that in the group buy pdf -- is it in there? There seemd to be just the total quantity discounts, not an extra early adopter discount? I just did a search and can't see it. Is that $20 of MI pro, the add one or both?


Thanks!

 

[orjan]

Hi,

I'm in too for 1 licence. Will read up on howto register properly.

/örjan

 

[gpauk]

1- anatech
2- kevinkr
3- lemon
4- PH104
5- douggoldberg
6- bk856er
7- mlloyd1
8- tjencks
9- agdr
10- waltzingbear
11- Dennis Hui
12- jwilhelm
13- 1audio (Demian)
14- soongsc
15- jhenderson01075
16- jazid
17- lbud4
18- diyaudnut
19- SilentGrace
20- acg
21- Ghianni
22- etlasr
23- B&W_arthur
24- markus22ch
25- niner
26- Microfast
27- gpauk

email sent.

 

[agdr]

I'm in too for 1 licence. Will read up on howto register properly.

Here you go:

1- anatech
2- kevinkr
3- lemon
4- PH104
5- douggoldberg
6- bk856er
7- mlloyd1
8- tjencks
9- agdr
10- waltzingbear
11- Dennis Hui
12- jwilhelm
13- 1audio (Demian)
14- soongsc
15- jhenderson01075
16- jazid
17- lbud4
18- diyaudnut
19- SilentGrace
20- acg
21- Ghianni
22- etlasr
23- B&W_arthur
24- markus22ch
25- niner
26- Microfast
27- gpauk
28- örjan

Then send an email to MI Pro at the email address in the PDF attachment at the bottom of the first post in this thread, PDF page 4, with the information on PDF page 5.

 

[ymwong]

I am in. Emailed to mi_pro as well. Thanks.

Updated list:
1- anatech
2- kevinkr
3- lemon
4- PH104
5- douggoldberg
6- bk856er
7- mlloyd1
8- tjencks
9- agdr
10- waltzingbear
11- Dennis Hui
12- jwilhelm
13- 1audio (Demian)
14- soongsc
15- jhenderson01075
16- jazid
17- lbud4
18- diyaudnut
19- SilentGrace
20- acg
21- Ghianni
22- etlasr
23- B&W_arthur
24- markus22ch
25- niner
26- Microfast
27- gpauk
28- örjan
29- ymwong

 

[cddumat]

One more to complete 30 participants:

1- anatech
2- kevinkr
3- lemon
4- PH104
5- douggoldberg
6- bk856er
7- mlloyd1
8- tjencks
9- agdr
10- waltzingbear
11- Dennis Hui
12- jwilhelm
13- 1audio (Demian)
14- soongsc
15- jhenderson01075
16- jazid
17- lbud4
18- diyaudnut
19- SilentGrace
20- acg
21- Ghianni
22- etlasr
23- B&W_arthur
24- markus22ch
25- niner
26- Microfast
27- gpauk
28- örjan
29- ymwong
30- cddumat

Needed emails will follow.

 

[deanoUK]

1- anatech
2- kevinkr
3- lemon
4- PH104
5- douggoldberg
6- bk856er
7- mlloyd1
8- tjencks
9- agdr
10- waltzingbear
11- Dennis Hui
12- jwilhelm
13- 1audio (Demian)
14- soongsc
15- jhenderson01075
16- jazid
17- lbud4
18- diyaudnut
19- SilentGrace
20- acg
21- Ghianni
22- etlasr
23- B&W_arthur
24- markus22ch
25- niner
26- Microfast
27- gpauk
28- örjan
29- ymwong
30- cddumat
31- deanoUK

Email sent.

 

[VIRTINS]

Assume a typical loudspeaker scenario with a measurement microphone that does not have perfectly flat frequency response. The user wants to measure the impulse response of the speaker, and the data should be compensated for the non-ideal transfer function of the microphone.

Compensating the frequency response magnitude only will screw up the time-domain signal due to the missing phase compensation. From your description it seems the user would have to determine the IIR coefficients that correspond to the micorphone frequency response. How does that work? Wouldn't it be much easier for the user if the software would deconvolve the raw test signal from the microphone transfer function?

Thanks for the interesting discussion.

For the impulse response of a speaker measured using short-time windowed method in a non-anechoic environment, I double very much that it is feasible to compensate microphone frequency response in time domain without screwing up the time-domain signal with even severe artifact from the deconvolution process based on FFT/ DFT followed by iFFT/iDFT.

IIR can be designed to counteract the non-ideal transfer function of the microphone in time domain.

 

[mbrennwa]

For the impulse response of a speaker measured using short-time windowed method in a non-anechoic environment, I double very much that it is feasible to compensate microphone frequency response in time domain without screwing up the time-domain signal with even severe artifact from the deconvolution process based on FFT/ DFT followed by iFFT/iDFT.

The raw impulse response (IR) you get from the measurement (speaker + microphone) is the convolution of the speaker IR and the microphone IR:
raw-IR = speaker-IR ** microphone-IR

The speaker-IR is therefore simply the deconvolution of the raw-IR from the microphone-IR:

speaker-IR = raw-IR // microphone-IR

Looking at this in the frequency domain may be a bit more intuitive (simple division):

FFT(speaker-IR) = FFT(raw-IR) / FFT(microphone-IR)

I've been using this method for many years now. Works very well.

Am I missing something?

 

[soongsc]

This is an interesting subject. But what is the benefit of processing response compensation in time domain where the reference frequency response of the mic is generally calibrated in the time domain?

 

[mbrennwa]

This is an interesting subject. But what is the benefit of processing response compensation in time domain where the reference frequency response of the mic is generally calibrated in the time domain?

There is no methodological "benefit" of doing it in the time domain or in the frequency domain. It's the same measurement, and going from the time domain to frequency domain and back is just a matter of applying (inverse) Fourier transforms.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that it would be useful to compensate speaker measurements for the non-ideal transfer function of the measurement microphone, and then keep the compensated data when saving it to a file for later use. While it seems possible to save compensated data in the frequency domain with MI Pro, it may not be straightforward (or not possible?) do do the same with time-domain data. This means that saving an impulse response measurement (or step response or other time-domain data) will always be raw data, not compensated for the transfer function of the microphone (or other sensor). That might be an issue if the data is re-used after a while and you can't remember the transfer function of the sensor that was used for the measurement, or when sharing the data with others who don't know the transfer function of that sensor.

But maybe I am just misinterpreting something -- that's why I am insisting.

 

[soongsc]

Now that you mention this, I do recall the benefit of making the measured data independent of calibration data when raw data is exchanged. I also proposed such for SoundEasy as well. However one still needs to be able to select the compensation depending on sensor used, and also disable calibration when desirable.