I am figuring I will end up needing to go with a kit using Pro Audio drivers. But does anyone know of a kit which would be another consideration more than the Jeff Bagby designed Maximus 12LXE kit ?
I'm trying to build speakers for my son. Who is all about heavy metal, hard rock, and electronica. He wants to feel the music, while still being able to enjoy hi res audiophile music, and it sound right as well.
Thanks
I'm trying to build speakers for my son. Who is all about heavy metal, hard rock, and electronica. He wants to feel the music, while still being able to enjoy hi res audiophile music, and it sound right as well.
Thanks
Power isn't an issue. We both have several amps, including 1200 w/ch monsters, if needed.
I'd like to stay under $2000 for the kit.
I should probably give a little more info. I have simply zero experience working with horns, waveguides, or Pro drivers .... NONE And I have no idea what these builds sound like at ALL. I'm praying not old Klipsch offerings or hissy and inaccurate PA sounding gear. I'm really a fish out of water, and just praying I'm barking up the wrong tree. Can I expect all of these different waveguide speakers to sound as accurate as a Vapor or Salk speaker, but with more dyanimcs, or am I living the pipe dream ? I sure wish I had heard something like this before.
I'm starting to wonder if I should look for the single most LOUD and dynamic loudspeaker, in a conventional speaker. Maybe the Tarkus. I just wish it used higher end drivers.
He's not looking to play parties .... or overly loud either. He just wants hard rock and metal to sound as fast and authoritative as it does when set up properly live. And he and I both agree, most speakers fail miserably to keep up with the dynamics, resolution, and speed. And sound CORRECT doing so.
I'm starting to wonder if I should look for the single most LOUD and dynamic loudspeaker, in a conventional speaker. Maybe the Tarkus. I just wish it used higher end drivers.
He's not looking to play parties .... or overly loud either. He just wants hard rock and metal to sound as fast and authoritative as it does when set up properly live. And he and I both agree, most speakers fail miserably to keep up with the dynamics, resolution, and speed. And sound CORRECT doing so.
We use Eminence, Eighteensound, Beyma, Selenium (Harman) drivers in our builds and are very satisfied with them. You can build several boxes, Plans are available form nearly every manufacturer, but if You want Bass and Loud You will need to build some heavy horn-loaded cabs and choose efficient drivers like 98dB Up.
21NTLW5000
4000W and 65 mm Excursion is enough for You ??
21NTLW5000
4000W and 65 mm Excursion is enough for You ??
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Not sure 1200w/ch counts as a "monster".
But not small for a HiFi amp.
With regards to accuracy (whatever that means), PA speakers can be as good as HiFi speakers, but the good ones are expensive. It's fairly easy to make a low-distortion 6" midbass when it's only ever going to see 50w. It's much harder to get that same performance if the driver is going to survive 1KW+ regularly.
What you're looking to design here is a good-sounding PA system.
Here's my recommendation:
- EV DH1a compression drivers. They're old, they're heavy, and they're still some of the best compression drivers in the world. They're fine with low-ish crossover points.
- Some big smooth horns that load down to 500Hz
- A couple of good 15" bass drivers. I like the Beyma 15P1200Nd. Others are available. If there's budget, 2x15" a side is a whole lot of fun. I'd probably make that a 2.5-way design and take the HF crossover up a bit so it doesn't run out of headroom.
You're looking to cross over below 800Hz so the 15" can be optimised for lower-mid and bass reproduction instead of needing to be flat up to 2kHz or whatever for a small-format tweeter.
I'd probably go sealed with EQ on the 15"s, but if SPL is a real priority, go ported and tune quite low. 30Hz sort of region.
I'd bi-amp, but a passive crossover is perfectly possible.
You could also use 12" drivers, but 15"s go low enough to not need subs.
Chris
I'm going to add another recommendation for Pi Speakers. Wayne Parham has a wide selection of kits and they've all been nicely designed. He's pretty serious about it.
Many of the designs are modern takes on old horn speakers like Klipsch/Altec/JBL's - but the old stuff never sounded as nice as these new designs. Modern drivers and crossovers don't have the limitations of the old stuff. At least not when done right.
The horns are very efficient and dynamic but even his smaller offerings that use a conventional tweeter are pretty efficient and dynamic. They'll sound nice if you follow the design and build them to spec.
Many of the designs are modern takes on old horn speakers like Klipsch/Altec/JBL's - but the old stuff never sounded as nice as these new designs. Modern drivers and crossovers don't have the limitations of the old stuff. At least not when done right.
The horns are very efficient and dynamic but even his smaller offerings that use a conventional tweeter are pretty efficient and dynamic. They'll sound nice if you follow the design and build them to spec.
My nephew is a Metal Head and purchased a pair of DIY Sound Group's Fusion 10.
Even driven by a boring $300 home theater receiver they can drive you out of the room.
Plenty of slam - that compression driver beats the hell out of a dome tweeter for dynamics.
Simple kit and plenty of support if you need help.
Painted with Duratex, they make great bachelor speakers!
Herm
Even driven by a boring $300 home theater receiver they can drive you out of the room.
Plenty of slam - that compression driver beats the hell out of a dome tweeter for dynamics.
Simple kit and plenty of support if you need help.
Painted with Duratex, they make great bachelor speakers!
Herm
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I could do it. But I could never live with it.
I am COMPLETELY heterosexual. But these bring out my very own WAF !!!
FWIW, I just wish to point out that those music genres are about the LEAST dynamic there are. LOUD, yes, DYNAMIC, no.
I thought it might help to keep this in mind when making choices about which drivers to use, etc. etc.
I could do it. But I could never live with it.
I am COMPLETELY heterosexual. But these bring out my very own WAF !!!
I'll let a clause be included in the marriage contract that prevents the better looking half to object on any kind of speaker design I decide to own.
Hello,
I got the same question for the design of a high efficiency speaker, that can play very loud. I have worked out one completely on paper, it is not built yet. I have chosen for a 4-way system, active (digital) filtered.
For woofer and midwoofer I have chosen for Acoustic Elegance TD12H in a basreflex cabinet and the TD10M in a closed box. They have such high efficiency and high excursion capabilities. In this way you can play very loud at the woofer maximum excursion. The current designed system can play 112.5dB at 1m, 2.83Vrms. Chosing a 15inch Acoustic elegance woofer it can play 116dB at the woofer maximum excursion. A 15 inch system will become larger, but it is also a possible choice. With the 12 inch the overall sensitivity is about 93dB at 1m, 2.83Vrms.
For the midrange the Accuton C173-6-096E is chosen and for the tweeter the SB Satori TW29BN beryllium.
I have chosen now for this set of drivers, but another choice is also possible. The Acoustic Elegance are very high performing, not easy to beat them.
Crossoverfrequencies are chosen now at 125, 500 and 2000Hz and the first design is a LR4 on a miniDSP platform. Other filtering like Butterworth or elliptical filtering is also an option. Other digital platforms are also possible, like Hypex for instance. A passive filter is also an option, but in that case the efficiency will become lower if you like to keep a low -3dB low frequency response.
The complete system is described on www.vcllabs.com in my blog chapter. If there is any further progress I will post.
I got the same question for the design of a high efficiency speaker, that can play very loud. I have worked out one completely on paper, it is not built yet. I have chosen for a 4-way system, active (digital) filtered.
For woofer and midwoofer I have chosen for Acoustic Elegance TD12H in a basreflex cabinet and the TD10M in a closed box. They have such high efficiency and high excursion capabilities. In this way you can play very loud at the woofer maximum excursion. The current designed system can play 112.5dB at 1m, 2.83Vrms. Chosing a 15inch Acoustic elegance woofer it can play 116dB at the woofer maximum excursion. A 15 inch system will become larger, but it is also a possible choice. With the 12 inch the overall sensitivity is about 93dB at 1m, 2.83Vrms.
For the midrange the Accuton C173-6-096E is chosen and for the tweeter the SB Satori TW29BN beryllium.
I have chosen now for this set of drivers, but another choice is also possible. The Acoustic Elegance are very high performing, not easy to beat them.
Crossoverfrequencies are chosen now at 125, 500 and 2000Hz and the first design is a LR4 on a miniDSP platform. Other filtering like Butterworth or elliptical filtering is also an option. Other digital platforms are also possible, like Hypex for instance. A passive filter is also an option, but in that case the efficiency will become lower if you like to keep a low -3dB low frequency response.
The complete system is described on www.vcllabs.com in my blog chapter. If there is any further progress I will post.
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