Test your ears in my new ABX test

[PMA]

Karl, when analysing your Rotel 1kHz tone files, I can see that both of them have high level of background noise and spuriae. Therefore is difficult to evaluate amplifiers sonic contribution without having an original file. Would it be possible to post the original, level matched file, or, at least, the file recorded through direct loopback without Rotel in the signal path?

 

[maty tinman]

Moving my arms like an orchestra conductor. Multichannel 9.2

This means that I can not resist moving my arms like an orchestra conductor. And that is not very usual in me, I need to believe what I hear and get excited.

Years ago (2011), in Reus (Tarragona, Spain) I hear the Andreu big system, 9.2 (two big DIY closed 18" subwoofer). First with closed speakers and after with open speakers, all DIY.

With closed front:

Sala de Andreu. Campo cercano. MP3 versus FLAC. 16/44 versus 24/96. B2031P versus Trevi+sub. Campo lejano y multicanal. | Nauscopio Scipiorum

[URL]http://maty.galeon.com/NB-imagenes/andreu/16042011/sala-andreu-16042011.jpg[/URL]

and the DIY open front

[IMG] [URL]http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/Andreu-dipolos-III.jpg[/URL]

With the [B]front closed[/B], rock, pop, jazz, classical... multichannel sounded very very very well.

With the [B]front opened[/B], the classical [I](multichannel)[/I] sounded AMAZING. The others music sounded worse than closed speakers.


PS: One day with the old dipole. Second day with the Behringer VP2520 without mods. Third day with the new dipole [I](picture above)[/I],

 

[maty tinman]

The older big closed front: Matrix-Hifi: H.U.M --> MGornirl

 

[jcx]

LTspice IV .wav works at 24 bits 96k for me

...Due to the limitations of exporting files in LTSpice the originals had to be down converted to 44.1k unfortunately...

don't know what you're saying here - takes too long, files too big, or control panel settings not giving enough resolution?

 

[Max Headroom]

Until you have a chance to sit there or to use better source of sound. Do not make me laugh, the dynamics of the big concert hall you are never able to transfer to your home, and especially not through compressed FM.

I did have similar imaginations, but 40 years ago I was at the practice in Supraphon recording studios for one months, recording mainly the classical orchestral music. For the next 25 years, I stopped any improvements in my home hifi and considered all the hifi efforts as useless. Then I have humbly accepted the fact that it is absolutely impossible to bring a concert sound to my/your sitting room.

I have run 4 stacked large 12" 3 way cabs in my lounge room for a couple of years, somehow the neighbors never complained.
An Aus J1000CS with 500+ fair dinkum watts per side is a fun way of doing anything like justice to AC/DC, R.E.M, Hendrix and the like....the list is long.

At full tilt an hour or so on a bunch of favorite tracks once a fortnight was ample....the sound was dead clean and mega big (ie huge) but 'not loud', that hour was like a live rock show of your choice only better and was a 'fix' of sorts......the rest of the fortnight at 'normal' levels was fine after the full on experience.

So Pavel, yes for orchestral program and real dynamic range recreation I agree it can't quite be done in the home environment.....as for loud rock/blues that's a fun and different story.

Dan.

 

[Mooly]

Karl, when analysing your Rotel 1kHz tone files, I can see that both of them have high level of background noise and spuriae. Therefore is difficult to evaluate amplifiers sonic contribution without having an original file. Would it be possible to post the original, level matched file, or, at least, the file recorded through direct loopback without Rotel in the signal path?

This is the test track played on the Sony and recorded as before, no amplifier. I used the variable output on the player to get the level in the right ballpark.

Sony Direct

 

[PMA]

Thank you Karl! I have to leave now but will be back in the afternoon and will test it and make matching/alignment if necessary.

 

[Mooly]

don't know what you're saying here - takes too long, files too big, or control panel settings not giving enough resolution?

I haven't been able to get it to create a file with any content when using other than 16 bit, 44.1kHz.

This would be a typical .op command that works for me:

.wave "C:\users\Karl\Documents\Working Files\level.wav" 16 44.1k V(out)

Just looking at the LT IV manual:

It says, and maybe this is the vital part applicable to my set up,

To read a .wav file with your PC's soundcard make sure that you limit its characteristics:

Format maximum of two channels.
Sampling resolution maximum of 16 bits per channel.
Sampling rate maximum 44100Hz.

I tried in the past and had no luck with anything other than 16/44100. I also thought it was all pure calculation and that the sound card didn't come into it.

 

[maty tinman]

Ella Fitzgerald – Sings Sweet Songs For Swingers

Off topic

Ella Fitzgerald Sings Sweet Songs For Swingers {US 1st Mono Pressing}

foobar2000 1.3.16 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2017-11-11 12:21:28

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: ? / ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR14 -0.77 dB -18.48 dB 3:15 ?-A1 Sweet And Lovely
DR14 -1.73 dB -18.68 dB 3:07 ?-A2 Let's Fall In Love
DR14 -1.51 dB -19.38 dB 3:47 ?-A3 Makin' Whoopee
DR14 -0.67 dB -18.43 dB 4:18 ?-A4 That Old Feeling
DR14 -1.69 dB -18.69 dB 2:25 ?-A5 I Remember You
DR12 -3.21 dB -18.93 dB 3:05 ?-A6 Moonlight Serenade
DR12 -1.51 dB -16.34 dB 3:03 ?-B1 Gone With The Wind
DR13 -1.86 dB -17.99 dB 3:25 ?-B2 Can't We Be Friends
DR12 -1.98 dB -17.16 dB 4:33 ?-B3 Out Of This World
DR14 -0.77 dB -18.20 dB 3:05 ?-B4 My Old Flame
DR14 -1.30 dB -19.14 dB 3:47 ?-B5 East Of The Sun (West Of The Moon)
DR13 -0.29 dB -16.34 dB 2:34 ?-B6 Lullaby Of Broadway
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 12
Official DR value: DR13

Samplerate: 96000 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 1539 kbps
Codec: FLAC
===============================================


Ella Fitzgerald - Sings Sweet Songs For Swingers (1959) [Hdtracks 24/192]

foobar2000 1.3.16 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2017-11-11 12:22:06

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Ella Fitzgerald / Sings Sweet Songs For Swingers (24/192 Stereo)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11 -0.91 dB -14.74 dB 3:15 01-Sweet And Lovely
DR11 -1.02 dB -15.43 dB 3:06 02-Let's Fall In Love
DR13 -0.96 dB -17.22 dB 3:45 03-Makin' Whoopee
DR11 -0.91 dB -15.70 dB 4:19 04-That Old Feeling
DR11 -0.96 dB -14.88 dB 2:25 05-I Remember You
DR11 -1.58 dB -16.18 dB 3:04 06-Moonlight Serenade
DR11 -0.95 dB -14.92 dB 3:03 07-Gone With The Wind
DR11 -0.94 dB -15.11 dB 3:24 08-Can't We Be Friends?
DR12 -0.99 dB -16.26 dB 4:37 09-Out Of This World
DR12 -0.94 dB -15.23 dB 3:05 10-My Old Flame
DR11 -0.88 dB -15.54 dB 3:48 11-East Of The Sun (West Of The Moon)
DR10 -0.89 dB -13.20 dB 2:26 12-Lullaby Of Broadway
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 12
Official DR value: DR11

Samplerate: 192000 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 5418 kbps
Codec: FLAC
===============================================


Hdtracks 24/192 sound brighter. After different tests I like more after resampler the HDtracks to 24/96 with SSRC Intermediate 95%

[URL]http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/foobar2000/foobar2000-Resampler_SSRC-96kHz-Intermediate-95.png[/URL]

[URL="https://sourceforge.net/projects/resamplerv/"]Resampler-V DSP plugin for Foobar download | SourceForge.net[/URL]

 

[PMA]

DR14 is normal on vinyls of pre-computer audio era. Let's thank to pocket audio for this horrible overcompression we have on new recordings of popular consumer music and remasters of old issues.

Hopefully not so for classical music. The DR of the Toccata violin under test here was 14

foobar2000 1.3.7 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2017-11-11 15:19:32

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statistics for: ?-tocl
Number of samples: 5518496
Duration: 1:55 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                 Left              Right

Peak Value:    -11.41 dB   
Avg RMS:       -28.89 dB   
DR channel:     14.46 dB   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Official DR Value: DR14

Samplerate:        48000 Hz
Channels:          1
Bits per sample:   24
Bitrate:           1152 kbps
Codec:             PCM
================================================================================

 

[maty tinman]

I have started listening for the first time the 24/192 vinyl rip:

Berliner Philharmoniker, Herbert von Karajan, Franz Liszt, Johann Strauss Jr., Johannes Brahms ‎– Karajan Express - Hungary (1960-1968) (1974, DGG)

​

Now sounds the A1 Liszt - Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 and the sound/music is very great!

DR14 -0.22 dB -20.53 dB 11:20 ?-A1 Liszt - Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2

DR15 -0.30 dB -21.44 dB 7:26 ?-C2 J. Strauss - Ouverture 'The Gipsy Baron

 

[PMA]

You can easily get DR15 from LP, but you cannot get enough difference between fff and ppp parts of music. With digital, no problem to have silent parts of music 60dB below loud parts of music. This is impossible with LP due to inherent silent groove noise. So, it is impossible to keep same ratio between loud and silent music with LP. LP has too many technical limitations.

 

[maty tinman]

My deep experience:

I have one vinyl rip with one track DR 17.

The problem is not the DR in older vinyls (the new are digital and usually very bad mastered). Before eighties the mastered are only analog, and much of them made with tubes. This is the key, the tubes and the even harmonics. Digital mastered before mid nineties are awful.

With very good vinyl rips is very difficult to hear the distorsions and noise with my KEF Q100 speakers, even with my headphones - I use them very little because my speakers sound great when the electric network is quiet - it is hard to appreciate.

Before the musics were weeks, months in the study. The recordings were much more careful.

After eighties only jazz, classical, new age... have a quality sound. Well, It depends also on the publishing (Verve, DG... you know).

Some Japanese SACD with the old records sound very well, better than vinyl, CD or tap, like The Rolling Stones.

A new record, jazz, vocal or classical with only DSD mastered without processing in the study sounds incredible but they are few.

Usually clasical/antique/baroque sound better in digital.

There are thousands and thousands of vinyl recordings that are not currently available in the new formats, especially classic/antique, of an impressive quality of interpretation.

For me the important thing is to believe what I hear and, above all, get excited.

 

[maty tinman]

Tonight I heard a new vinyl rip with some distorsion: Jennifer Warnes - Jennifer {US 1st Pressing} (1972), the first artist record. It is not available in modern format I think. It does not even appear in the Discogs database!

The small distorsion caused a sensation of more spatiality and naturalness. In some cuts it was noticed more than in others and that is when I noticed it.

Usually I do not keep these noisy rips but this disc has very good music! Some type of magic.

 

[maty tinman]

The problem is not the DR in older vinyls (the new are digital and usually very bad mastered). Before eighties the mastered are only analog, and much of them made with tubes. This is the key, the tubes and the even harmonics. Digital mastered before mid nineties are awful.

Well, I just have read the Bruno Putzeys interview. In the second page:

Bruno Putzeys: Head of the Class (D, That is) Page 2 | Sound & Vision

BP: Well, if the amplifier is truly great that’s absolutely right. Sonic signatures are what you get when you approach the same ideal from different angles. There are a few distortion mechanisms conspicuously missing in Class D, mostly those related to the input stage of a Class A(B) solid-state amplifier and nonlinear capacitances. Those are also missing in valve [tube] amplifiers so it’s quite common for people to notice that a Class D amplifier is somehow reminiscent of valve amplification in terms of “sweetness” for want of a better word.

I’ve heard several reports of valve aficionados ditching their glassware and switching to Ncore. All I can conclude from that is that those people clearly weren’t actively seeking the distortion of valves as many believe, but instead had a legitimate beef with certain sonic aspects common to most solid-state designs. That’s one thing I have to explain again and again to my fellow doubters: when audiophiles report a particular listening experience, that experience is real. Trust that. Just don’t trust the explanation they proffer.

After that, I withdraw my words: This is the key, the tubes and the even harmonics

 

[maty tinman]

Too much distorsion in some cuts.

Now I listen others 24/96 JW vinyl rips and I hate the distorsion!

Jennifer Warnes - The Hunter (1992) (US Remaster 2011)

Jennifer Warnes - The Hunter (German 1st pressing) (1992)

A1 Rock You Gently

The Remaster has more bass. Both are great. I love them.

 

[PMA]

Guys, would you be interested in a test of audibility of speaker non-linear distortion? I think I have quite a good method how to extract ambient noise and microphone path noise from the recorded speaker sound. You can see it in the attached plots.

I have several recordings of speaker sines collected from the past. This one is 2kHz sine recorded at about 2V signal. If you would like to check audibility, the files are here:

http://pmacura.cz/speaker2k.zip

One of the files is digitally generated 2kHz and the second one is recorded via speaker and has ambient noise extracted (2nd image below).
ABX result should be posted. Anyone able to discern the files by listening?

 

[Mooly]

Quite an easy one, the harmonics are clearly audible.

 

[PMA]

Great result and hearing abilities, Karl! So should I start a thread on audibility of speaker distortion? I assume it might be a flame thread, though.

 

[billshurv]

I think anything that helps people understand their personal sensitivities AND might get them thinking has to be good?