Hello, I'm working on an older, larger stereo console where I'm updating the insides with newer technology, while retaining the classic mid-century looks on the outside.
The original speakers were comprised of a 12" woofer and mounted in front of each woofer, was a metal tweeter bracket that held a pair of sealed-back 2 3/4" paper tweeters.
At first i was looking at doing a pair of the diysoundgroup Volt-10 LX coaxials, since its a proven design and is available it kit form. But since there were 12" woofers in there originally, I wanted to see what else was available in that size.
I looked at the Fane full range units and they seem to have good reviews. I do have an ADC SoundShaper III that I am installing in the cabinet so I can make corrections to what ever direction I decide to go.
I was also looking at mimicking the original setup with a good 12" woofer and possibly a good 3" full-range driver in front of it using a similar bracket to the original.
What are your thoughts on that idea?
I'd like to stay under $300 total for the speakers.
Thanks!
The original speakers were comprised of a 12" woofer and mounted in front of each woofer, was a metal tweeter bracket that held a pair of sealed-back 2 3/4" paper tweeters.
At first i was looking at doing a pair of the diysoundgroup Volt-10 LX coaxials, since its a proven design and is available it kit form. But since there were 12" woofers in there originally, I wanted to see what else was available in that size.
I looked at the Fane full range units and they seem to have good reviews. I do have an ADC SoundShaper III that I am installing in the cabinet so I can make corrections to what ever direction I decide to go.
I was also looking at mimicking the original setup with a good 12" woofer and possibly a good 3" full-range driver in front of it using a similar bracket to the original.
What are your thoughts on that idea?
I'd like to stay under $300 total for the speakers.
Thanks!
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Surprised no one has chimed in yet?
This full ranger is very well regarded here and even used in some expensive commercial designs.
https://www.parts-express.com/peerl...-3-1-2-full-range-paper-cone-woofer--264-1062
as for the 12" I'm less sure but if your console is leaky then the Peerless SLS 830669 used over here for this very well established open baffle design might be a good choice?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...nsive-ob-project-post2752617.html#post2752617
This full ranger is very well regarded here and even used in some expensive commercial designs.
https://www.parts-express.com/peerl...-3-1-2-full-range-paper-cone-woofer--264-1062
as for the 12" I'm less sure but if your console is leaky then the Peerless SLS 830669 used over here for this very well established open baffle design might be a good choice?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...nsive-ob-project-post2752617.html#post2752617
The Eminence Beta-12CX would be in budget.
If you could cram in a 15", these (BM15CXA) are absurdly cheap:
Speaker Clearance
If you could cram in a 15", these (BM15CXA) are absurdly cheap:
Speaker Clearance
Fan's 12-250TC fullrange has qts friendly to un-enclosed designs. On axis, its response extends to 17KHz with a double-whizzer arrangement. Does the cabinet have separate chambers for the woofers? - or is it one big cabinet?
(MCM links don't always work)
Fane International 12" Full Range Woofer 250W RMS | SOVEREIGN 12-250TC (SOVEREIGN 12250TC) | Fane International
(MCM links don't always work)
Fane International 12" Full Range Woofer 250W RMS | SOVEREIGN 12-250TC (SOVEREIGN 12250TC) | Fane International
One is missing. Also, since I'm updating the electronics, I'd like to put some higher-performance speakers in there.
This one ~meets the vintage specs of a number of open back radio, HIFI consoles I gutted way back when: https://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-212-8-12-oem-woofer-8-ohm--290-335
'HF' drivers were basically RadioShack quality, so for an upgrade, this one or similar looks good on paper: https://www.parts-express.com/faita...rofessional-full-range-woofer-8-ohm--294-1101
GM
Good idea on the Faital for the tweeter. I've had my eye on that one but never tried it.
What I have tried are the GRS and Goldwood woofers, in everything from 8 to 15 inches. Although the Goldwood look a little more solid, I find the GRS just as good in practical use. Neither are particularly efficient, but with a SS amp that's not a big problem.
I use a GRS 8" woofer and a 3" cone in a lot of my builds and they work very well together.
What I have tried are the GRS and Goldwood woofers, in everything from 8 to 15 inches. Although the Goldwood look a little more solid, I find the GRS just as good in practical use. Neither are particularly efficient, but with a SS amp that's not a big problem.
I use a GRS 8" woofer and a 3" cone in a lot of my builds and they work very well together.
Not sure a modern speaker will perform well in that console cabinet.
Old speakers were very light cone, very light voice coil, which to boot was short, small magnet, meaning low damping/high Q (2 sides of same coin).
Typical cabinet design and certainly what your console has (albeit incomplete today) was a *aperiodic* cabinet, meaning it was neither closed nor tuned but it was, if you accept this name: "semi open back"
Back is "closed" but has either a slot covered in fiberglass or similar, or, quite common, a thin (1/8" to 1/4" tops) multiperforated hardwood back, think 2mm holes separated by 10 or 12mm which lets the speaker "breathe" but damps resonance because it´s resistive to air motion.
Although I love Faitals, guess there you actually need 3" to 4" paper cone tweeters, possible voice coil 12/14/16/19mm , magnet from 55 to 73 mm diameter.
*Somebody* must still make them, or you might find a dusty couple in some old shop shelves.
Post some pictures of the remaining speaker.At least front (to see cone and suspension) nd back (to see magnet).
An extra sideways one will not hurt
If any tweeter remains, even if blown, pictures might also help find a substitute.
Such old systems measure "ugly" , simulate worse, so if you "listen with your eyes" you will be disappointed, but actual listening can be quite interesting and bearable.
I always find funny that lots of people goes to such extremes to reproduce old style Electronics, such as tube amps, paper in oil capacitors, carbon composition resistors, NOS Tubes, output transformers, etc. , and NOBODY cares about the old, proper speakers which were used with such Electronics. Really amazing, considering the importance speakers have on the final result.
EDIT: just checked and first hit was a matching Goldwood 4" (3" actual cone) cone tweeter, complete with 14mm voice coil and 60mm magnet.
Looks like the real deal. https://www.midwestspeakerrepair.com/goldwood-gt-25-4-cone-tweeter
FWIW and after many years I am making a new batch (100/200) of such tweeters; paper cones have a smooth in between sound, way more bearable than any horn/driver/piezo and acceptable efficiency.
Old speakers were very light cone, very light voice coil, which to boot was short, small magnet, meaning low damping/high Q (2 sides of same coin).
Typical cabinet design and certainly what your console has (albeit incomplete today) was a *aperiodic* cabinet, meaning it was neither closed nor tuned but it was, if you accept this name: "semi open back"
Back is "closed" but has either a slot covered in fiberglass or similar, or, quite common, a thin (1/8" to 1/4" tops) multiperforated hardwood back, think 2mm holes separated by 10 or 12mm which lets the speaker "breathe" but damps resonance because it´s resistive to air motion.
Although I love Faitals, guess there you actually need 3" to 4" paper cone tweeters, possible voice coil 12/14/16/19mm , magnet from 55 to 73 mm diameter.
*Somebody* must still make them, or you might find a dusty couple in some old shop shelves.
Post some pictures of the remaining speaker.At least front (to see cone and suspension) nd back (to see magnet).
An extra sideways one will not hurt
If any tweeter remains, even if blown, pictures might also help find a substitute.
Such old systems measure "ugly" , simulate worse, so if you "listen with your eyes" you will be disappointed, but actual listening can be quite interesting and bearable.
I always find funny that lots of people goes to such extremes to reproduce old style Electronics, such as tube amps, paper in oil capacitors, carbon composition resistors, NOS Tubes, output transformers, etc. , and NOBODY cares about the old, proper speakers which were used with such Electronics. Really amazing, considering the importance speakers have on the final result.
EDIT: just checked and first hit was a matching Goldwood 4" (3" actual cone) cone tweeter, complete with 14mm voice coil and 60mm magnet.
Looks like the real deal. https://www.midwestspeakerrepair.com/goldwood-gt-25-4-cone-tweeter
FWIW and after many years I am making a new batch (100/200) of such tweeters; paper cones have a smooth in between sound, way more bearable than any horn/driver/piezo and acceptable efficiency.
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Note that post one said: "I'm updating the insides with newer technology"
...and he wanted a 12" version of "Volt-10 LX coaxials" (a current Eminence speaker).
Nothing vintage apart from looks.
Here's a picture of the cabinet. This isn't mine, but it's the same model:
Here's a picture of the woofers, (mine was missing one). Again, not mine, just the same model # of a GE 933C675-1
The tweeters are some GE 933C things.
I do like the 2-way system ideas that have been suggested using 12" woofers.
It looks like the Faital Pro suggestion above may be good, but, it's considerably more efficient than the suggested 12" woofer. Wouldn't that pose a problem?
Like I had mentioned earlier, I can make sealed (or vented) enclosures if needed to insert into the cabinet to get proper performance, if needed. However, if there are some drivers that provide good performance while allowing the back to be semi-opened, then that's ok, too!
And yes, the electronics will be upgraded in a way where it will look period-correct when the lid is opened, but underneath in the cabinet there will be either an Elan or Bitwise controller, a Parasound Scamp, Sonos integration, etc.
The goal of this project is to actually use the console on a daily basis, for watching movies, listening to music, etc. This way I can replace the speakers that I have in the family room with this unit when completed. So, performance matters.
Thanks for the help!
Here's a picture of the woofers, (mine was missing one). Again, not mine, just the same model # of a GE 933C675-1
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The tweeters are some GE 933C things.
I do like the 2-way system ideas that have been suggested using 12" woofers.
It looks like the Faital Pro suggestion above may be good, but, it's considerably more efficient than the suggested 12" woofer. Wouldn't that pose a problem?
Like I had mentioned earlier, I can make sealed (or vented) enclosures if needed to insert into the cabinet to get proper performance, if needed. However, if there are some drivers that provide good performance while allowing the back to be semi-opened, then that's ok, too!
And yes, the electronics will be upgraded in a way where it will look period-correct when the lid is opened, but underneath in the cabinet there will be either an Elan or Bitwise controller, a Parasound Scamp, Sonos integration, etc.
The goal of this project is to actually use the console on a daily basis, for watching movies, listening to music, etc. This way I can replace the speakers that I have in the family room with this unit when completed. So, performance matters.
Thanks for the help!
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Ah ha! That one. I don't know who made that cabinet for them, but it's a nice one. I think some other companies used it it, too. I'd love to find one at a good price.
Tweeter louder than woofer is not a problem that can't be fixed with a single resistor, or two if you are feeling fancy.
As for the Goldwood sealed back tweeters, NO. I have them, they are so awful they should be against the law.
FWIW, I have a couple of Magnavox and 1 Clairtone console. The Clairtone is 100% stock expect for new electrolytic caps and a new stylus. It's our daily driver in the living room.
Tweeter louder than woofer is not a problem that can't be fixed with a single resistor, or two if you are feeling fancy.
As for the Goldwood sealed back tweeters, NO. I have them, they are so awful they should be against the law.
FWIW, I have a couple of Magnavox and 1 Clairtone console. The Clairtone is 100% stock expect for new electrolytic caps and a new stylus. It's our daily driver in the living room.
But what decent 12" costs anywhere near ~$300/pr to one's doorstep? This leaves making a somewhat modern day two-way.
GM
All generalizations are false including this one. So said my mom, the wisest person anyone will ever know. Stereo consoles covered all the bases in their day. The Ampex that I grew up with had non-parallel walls and bad-*** JBL 8" full ranges driven by 6V6 p-p mono blocs that I still have. So listen and learn, instead of stopping the conversation.
Oh, I thought it was clear I was not talking about the OP by himself but a *general* trend I see everywhere.
That´s why I said "Lots of people" and many of those can be found right here, in DIY Audio it self .... as well as on tons of other Forums.
It´s a very rare bird indeed that DIYer who builds a Vintage circuit amplifier (as early as a Single Ended Triode type, go figure), and then proceeds to listen not through a much more modern speaker as 99% do, but , say, a Klipsch or similar cabinet, or using Field Coil speakers (which are capable of terrific sound and efficiency) or at least, say, a Voice of the Theatre system or those magnificent JBL Paragon systems.
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