I need a crossover design for a two way design with a vifa D25 tweeter and dayton DC200 8" woofers. I got a pair of Energy ESM 2 with no crossovers and the woofers were changed to the dayton. Can anyone recommend a design?
Also, can anyone suggest a resource for calculating the crossover points for these slightly more crossovers with resistors in series with caps/inductors etc?
Also, can anyone suggest a resource for calculating the crossover points for these slightly more crossovers with resistors in series with caps/inductors etc?
OK. Doesn't look hard. You have a near 1.5 cu foot reflex box which can't be far off what is required here. 
Dayton Audio DC200-8 8" Classic Woofer
Tymphany D25AG-35-06 1" Aluminum Alloy Dome Tweeter
I'd try the near 2.5kHz circuit below, with or without the second 6.8uF capacitor on the tweeter. The 3.3R gives you some level adjustment. Every ohm changes level by a dB. But it must be near right anyway. Good project. Sort of thing I like doing myself.
Dayton Audio DC200-8 8" Classic Woofer
Tymphany D25AG-35-06 1" Aluminum Alloy Dome Tweeter
I'd try the near 2.5kHz circuit below, with or without the second 6.8uF capacitor on the tweeter. The 3.3R gives you some level adjustment. Every ohm changes level by a dB. But it must be near right anyway. Good project. Sort of thing I like doing myself.
Attachments
OK. Doesn't look hard. You have a near 1.5 cu foot reflex box which can't be far off what is required here.
Dayton Audio DC200-8 8" Classic Woofer
Tymphany D25AG-35-06 1" Aluminum Alloy Dome Tweeter
I'd try the near 2.5kHz circuit below, with or without the second 6.8uF capacitor on the tweeter. The 3.3R gives you some level adjustment. Every ohm changes level by a dB. But it must be near right anyway. Good project. Sort of thing I like doing myself.
Thanks, I could try that. It's not the aluminum dome tweeter though, it is this one:
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/x8QAAOSwX~dWoNqZ/$_1.JPG
I was also looking at the woofer part of the crossover on post 4 of this.
crossover for Dayton DC-200 8 inch 2-way ? - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
Looks like some odd values though. Anyone have the formulas to calculate the crossover frequency with slightly different values so I can see the difference?
Also, any suggestions on what inductors I can use? I'm looking for something fairly low budget, close to what they originally used in these speakers.
crossover for Dayton DC-200 8 inch 2-way ? - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
Looks like some odd values though. Anyone have the formulas to calculate the crossover frequency with slightly different values so I can see the difference?
Also, any suggestions on what inductors I can use? I'm looking for something fairly low budget, close to what they originally used in these speakers.
Hi,
The Dayton DC200-8 has a falling frequency response and a strong resonance at 2 kHz. Hence a conventional low-pass filter is not appropriate. The driver mainly needs a notch and possibly a zobel (Slight modifications to Noah's 8s. xo change? - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum).
The Dayton DC200-8 has a falling frequency response and a strong resonance at 2 kHz. Hence a conventional low-pass filter is not appropriate. The driver mainly needs a notch and possibly a zobel (Slight modifications to Noah's 8s. xo change? - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum).
Attachments
Hi,
The Dayton DC200-8 has a falling frequency response and a strong resonance at 2 kHz. Hence a conventional low-pass filter is not appropriate. The driver mainly needs a notch and possibly a zobel (Slight modifications to Noah's 8s. xo change? - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum).
That looks great, thanks!
Now can anyone recommend some inductors I can use for that circuit that I can get in those spec that won't break the bank?
I can't find anything suitable at mouser or digikey, where should I be looking?
I've got to find something that can be affordable in canada too, sometimes it is very expensive to order from the USA. My last parts express order cost at least $30 to ship, then I got hit with duty/brokerage.
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S18.62 - Solen Électronique Inc.
edit: there is another way, to make one yourself. Find scrap magnet wire from old washing machine motors or buy some magnet wire from a shop that repairs transformers. Whatever works.
edit: there is another way, to make one yourself. Find scrap magnet wire from old washing machine motors or buy some magnet wire from a shop that repairs transformers. Whatever works.
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Those are a bit on the expensive side. They have 0.36mH, but the DCR is much lower at 0.17ohm.
Q-components has some affordable ones, they've got a good one for the 0.6mH one, but not as close for the 0.35mH.
https://qcomponents.ca/McBride-MCL06.html
I can get the 0.4 and unwind from there?
This puts me at about $50 total for the crossovers, this is doable. Not going to blow $100+, these are what they are. Worth $200 in original condition.
I plan to use them for cottage speakers. The paradigm 7se were way too boomy on the wood floor with the dual 8".
Hi Raccoon,
The coil values are not that critical. 0.56 - 0,6 mH for the woofer and 0.35 - 0.4 mH for the tweeter is in the uncertainty range of the design anyway.
Solen sells reasonably priced inductors in Canada: Standard Inductors 20AWG (0.80mm) - Solen Électronique Inc.
0.36 mH (0.4 ohm) and 0.56 mH (0.51 ohm) are available.
The mouseprint: Please note that
The coil values are not that critical. 0.56 - 0,6 mH for the woofer and 0.35 - 0.4 mH for the tweeter is in the uncertainty range of the design anyway.
Solen sells reasonably priced inductors in Canada: Standard Inductors 20AWG (0.80mm) - Solen Électronique Inc.
0.36 mH (0.4 ohm) and 0.56 mH (0.51 ohm) are available.
The mouseprint: Please note that
- It's just a crossover proposal based on a simulation
- Your tweeter may be different from the D25TG-55-06
- The Dayton DC200-8 is not really suited for a 2-way speaker
Hi Raccoon,
The coil values are not that critical. 0.56 - 0,6 mH for the woofer and 0.35 - 0.4 mH for the tweeter is in the uncertainty range of the design anyway.
Solen sells reasonably priced inductors in Canada: Standard Inductors 20AWG (0.80mm) - Solen Électronique Inc.
0.36 mH (0.4 ohm) and 0.56 mH (0.51 ohm) are available.
The mouseprint: Please note that
- It's just a crossover proposal based on a simulation
- Your tweeter may be different from the D25TG-55-06
- The Dayton DC200-8 is not really suited for a 2-way speaker
Why is the dayton not suited for a 2-way? Not a smooth frequency response high enough?
I'll keep in mind those solen inductors. I'm ordering a few caps for another project too, it will depend on where I need to order from.
Q-components also had the most affordable resistors.
I'm not expecting this to be a super perfect hifi project, but I'm hoping it will be reasonably decent, comparable to original ESM2.
Will 6.2 ohm also be close enough to 6 ohm for those resistors? (definitely will be if they are on the low end of tolerance) If so I can get that one from solen, the only ones at digikey are almost $7 each. Then I can order from solen for this project and another.
I wish I had that software you used, I'd plug in a whole bunch of values and see what difference they made.
I wish I had that software you used, I'd plug in a whole bunch of values and see what difference they made.
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I'm not convinced that Dissi is on the right track here at all. Sorry.
That's just a 2kHz notch around 6dB deep. It does nothing else. Everything I know about 8" bass tells me you need some rolloff to reduce cone breakup around 5kHz. Otherwise it sounds harsh.
I build this stuff with any woofer and tweeter I have lying around.
This is a sort of second order bass (well, just some impedance correction on a bass coil filter) and third order tweeter.
Your Dayton DC200-8 is not suitable for this one. It needs 2.5kHz XO and it's high inductance. But I see nothing in the Dayton that will sound terrible. Especially off-axis, where dispersion falls off around 2.5kHz. Sure it will rolloff rather sharply, and you might hear that on some female vocals, but I really think my circuit will work better.
I'm not fond of notches. When they break up, they break up very horribly. The thing in audio, is we all like simple circuits, but really the drivers dictate what works well. Without some substantial impedance correction, at the price of complexity, as in the Rogers LS5/9, Rogers Loudspeakers › LS5/9, I think you won't do better.
If I really want to expend some effort, I think 4th order tweeter and impedance corrected second order bass is the best you can do with 8". But it's a monster to build.
For comparison is a remarkably similar Visaton W200S which has given me a good time. And don't fret about exact crossover values at all. 10% is good enough.
That's just a 2kHz notch around 6dB deep. It does nothing else. Everything I know about 8" bass tells me you need some rolloff to reduce cone breakup around 5kHz. Otherwise it sounds harsh.
I build this stuff with any woofer and tweeter I have lying around.
This is a sort of second order bass (well, just some impedance correction on a bass coil filter) and third order tweeter.
Your Dayton DC200-8 is not suitable for this one. It needs 2.5kHz XO and it's high inductance. But I see nothing in the Dayton that will sound terrible. Especially off-axis, where dispersion falls off around 2.5kHz. Sure it will rolloff rather sharply, and you might hear that on some female vocals, but I really think my circuit will work better.
I'm not fond of notches. When they break up, they break up very horribly. The thing in audio, is we all like simple circuits, but really the drivers dictate what works well. Without some substantial impedance correction, at the price of complexity, as in the Rogers LS5/9, Rogers Loudspeakers › LS5/9, I think you won't do better.
If I really want to expend some effort, I think 4th order tweeter and impedance corrected second order bass is the best you can do with 8". But it's a monster to build.
For comparison is a remarkably similar Visaton W200S which has given me a good time. And don't fret about exact crossover values at all. 10% is good enough.
Attachments
Oh, I forgot to show you the crossover. Whatever I have lying around really...
It really doesn't matter much if you use a 1mH or a 1.2mH bass coil, for instance. Tiny differences.
I think I'd try your circuit then...
Are the DCR inductor values particularly critical? Will half an ohm make a difference for the 1mH inductor?
What difference does that second 6.8uf capacitor you said was optional make?
I'm not looking to do anything overly fancy with these, I'd like to spend $40-60 on parts.
What software are you using? I should buy a program, if not for this project for my next one (Tannoy 3828 crossover build). Then I won't have to ask how much difference something makes.
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Steve is using Boxsim, a free speaker simulation program from Visaton: Downloads
And if he would use the software correctly, he would see how bad his crossover proposal actually is. But he prefers to do fictional simulations using wrong drivers. I have given up all hope.
Attached is a zip file that contains all driver data files and two Boxsim projects (crossover System7 and Dissi).
Attachments
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