You could stretch the M200 out that far but you will have a deep dip in the response centered around 4K. I have done this - it doesn't sound bad (not a peak a dip) but it doesn't sound right either. I like to cross over below 3.5K or above 7K, in between is kinda hairy with horns. A good 1" driver is much better than a good larger mid/large format driver 3K up.
The treble is critical to the bass with it's leading edge. The deeper you go in bass the cleaner the upper treble extension you want. If we were to listen to just my midbass horns and the community driver with no low pass it would sound balanced, add the bass and to balance you need the treble horn.
All this can be done with passive crossovers if you choose your drivers and horns correctly to begin with. The horn/drivers have bandpass crossovers built in.
It is entirely possible to match directivity with two horns. Without this you will have a compromise in the soundstage, imaging and tone. Unless you listen outside keeping the radiation matched is part the system design - this beeause we listen to our rooms much more than we think we do
The treble is critical to the bass with it's leading edge. The deeper you go in bass the cleaner the upper treble extension you want. If we were to listen to just my midbass horns and the community driver with no low pass it would sound balanced, add the bass and to balance you need the treble horn.
All this can be done with passive crossovers if you choose your drivers and horns correctly to begin with. The horn/drivers have bandpass crossovers built in.
It is entirely possible to match directivity with two horns. Without this you will have a compromise in the soundstage, imaging and tone. Unless you listen outside keeping the radiation matched is part the system design - this beeause we listen to our rooms much more than we think we do
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I can't agree more about trebel and bass : yep, mandatory !
Thanks again, I have to re re read the thread about horns and directivity index ! I found in one of the another Lewinski threads, than the Seos 24-4 30" wild horn/4" throat was a possibility for a european to get a mid-bass horn on shelf...
Your horns seems fantastic (EV, etc... but hard or very expensive to source
... liked what they did at diysg with the Titan LX seos Cinema like horn... although I'm not sure tha ALpha 6 can beat your B&C or the 10" Fane... )
... to be continued
Thanks again, I have to re re read the thread about horns and directivity index ! I found in one of the another Lewinski threads, than the Seos 24-4 30" wild horn/4" throat was a possibility for a european to get a mid-bass horn on shelf...
Your horns seems fantastic (EV, etc... but hard or very expensive to source
... liked what they did at diysg with the Titan LX seos Cinema like horn... although I'm not sure tha ALpha 6 can beat your B&C or the 10" Fane... )... to be continued
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It's pretty easy to source horns/drivers here - there is always a hot shot salesmen out there pitchng a place to ditch there obsolete PA and replacing it with the new improved latest fad. It is so easy to get here a fellow like me that is obsessed with it can accumulate a ware house full of the stuff. Thank goodness I have the space here to keep it mostly out of my wife's view. I'm a horn hoarder
I'm a horn hoarder
community m200 vs selenium d405ti
both these drivers have outstanding midrange sound, the m200 has something in the sound that seems unrelated to frequency response that is more more realistic. an incredible amount of SNAP or life.could it be the more linear phase
what i mean by better is with a good horn system that is tuned in the sound from the recording can almost scare you. by scare you i mean you actually hear real sound that is not artificial - it canbe stunning when you are used to listening to regular hifi playback both these can do this but the m200 is very consistent to the point the mind adapts to the real sound -
2 meters away in the brh90 big radial horns
both these drivers have outstanding midrange sound, the m200 has something in the sound that seems unrelated to frequency response that is more more realistic. an incredible amount of SNAP or life.could it be the more linear phase
what i mean by better is with a good horn system that is tuned in the sound from the recording can almost scare you. by scare you i mean you actually hear real sound that is not artificial - it canbe stunning when you are used to listening to regular hifi playback both these can do this but the m200 is very consistent to the point the mind adapts to the real sound -
2 meters away in the brh90 big radial horns
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I've been watching ebay for some brh-90's recently, and I've noticed there seem to be 2 styles?
Community BRH-90 Black Fiberglass Bi-Radial Horn PAIR - 2" JBL 4 Bolt Pattern | eBay
and
COMMUNITY SOUND BRH-90 Radial Horn from Brooklyn movie theater speaker driver | eBay
Curious which style you have. Or maybe one of those isn't really brh-90?
Community BRH-90 Black Fiberglass Bi-Radial Horn PAIR - 2" JBL 4 Bolt Pattern | eBay
and
COMMUNITY SOUND BRH-90 Radial Horn from Brooklyn movie theater speaker driver | eBay
Curious which style you have. Or maybe one of those isn't really brh-90?
re: your recent measurements. The d450ti 'looks' like it would be the better driver, but you've mentioned quite a few times how much you enjoy the m200's sound.
Would be interesting to try and better qualify/quantify the measurable differences that lean your preference one way or another. Obviously, haha.
Would be interesting to try and better qualify/quantify the measurable differences that lean your preference one way or another. Obviously, haha.
i have had them both but not at the same time
the second pair or the theater pair is what i have now. they are much better constructed - in the auction though is the small format one inch version. i have both the one inch and the bigger two inch that i just posted the measurements with - the one inch horn is really good too. if you want to use a small format one inch driver they are about as wide range as you can get
the other pair shown is a large format 2 inch and sounds pretty good but i never had a chance to compare. a local fellow that does a local outdoor festival sound uses them for sound. he loves them
all these horns require dampening to really get the most out of them. a simple layer of dynamat type composite dampening or two goes a long way
the second pair or the theater pair is what i have now. they are much better constructed - in the auction though is the small format one inch version. i have both the one inch and the bigger two inch that i just posted the measurements with - the one inch horn is really good too. if you want to use a small format one inch driver they are about as wide range as you can get
the other pair shown is a large format 2 inch and sounds pretty good but i never had a chance to compare. a local fellow that does a local outdoor festival sound uses them for sound. he loves them
all these horns require dampening to really get the most out of them. a simple layer of dynamat type composite dampening or two goes a long way
exactly - i'm trying to figure this out - this thread is basically me thinking out loud lol
i really like the d405ti, it's debatable so i shared this - i have been going back and forth with these drivers for a couple of years now. the d405 is much wider bandwith but like all the other 2 inch drivers i have just doesn't sound as good as a good one inch above 3k
And certainly one of my reasons for subscribing.
I've had the same experience, though more limited. I had JBL 2445's on 2350horns ~550hz - ~3200hz, iirc. Above that I had DE250 on RCF HF101 horn. Both were above some built by me Inlow sound 135hz mid-bass horns with 8pe21's. That was an awesome combo.
I tried to run the 2445/2350 combo out to 6k, but it just didn't work for me at all, once I landed around 3000hz I was much happier.
re: the 2" brh-90. It seems this would be a good candidate to replicate in wood perhaps. ie: Well damped and a bit better 'waf' than fiberglass.
as if these giant horns we love have much, if any damn 'waf', ha!
that sounds like a NICE system
i have the jbl 2350 and have to say these community horns are better. the 2350 is pretty bad above 3k like you say where these are actually much better in that respect. plus they load the bottom better.
if you take some convoluted open cell foam like the gedlee guy uses uses and put it in the throat of the 2350 they clean up quite a bit. that throat is the problem
i have the jbl 2350 and have to say these community horns are better. the 2350 is pretty bad above 3k like you say where these are actually much better in that respect. plus they load the bottom better.
if you take some convoluted open cell foam like the gedlee guy uses uses and put it in the throat of the 2350 they clean up quite a bit. that throat is the problem
Pcgab,
Seems we are on rather similar boats: WAF being a concern with large horns, willingness to build something in wood, and our desired range for the mids (I'm ok ending at 2.2kHz though). I think I'm less experienced than you, but been doing some research and want to offer my short list so far:
M200 as driver, either on a JBL 2386 or Seos 24 or 30.
JBL 2386: Pooh likes it and has measured it, and he recommends a minimum xo of 700Hz. As I don't listen at very high SPL I'm thinking I might be able to go a bit lower.
Seos 24: user Face uses this horn with a BMS coaxial driver from 450Hz up and is very happy with it. From his measurements, the Seos 24 doesn't quite load much at 450Hz, but Face says if SPL is not very high it works well for him. This horn has about twice the mouth size of the 2386, and about 60% of its length.
Seos 30: no references, but I assume it would load further down as it's 70% larger than the Seos 24, at the expense of a much bigger horn hence higher WAF cost.
What's your take on these?
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I say 700 hz because it only loads the m200 driver that low. It is rolling off at 700, it will not be linear below 700 hz. I see people measure horns here all the time at 3 feet, a meter, a foot, at the mouth-- too close! It needs to be measured at least 6 feet out to know how low the bottom range will work - as far as power handling and your amps you could probably drive the m200 down to 100 hz lol
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