https://www.midwestspeakerrepair.com/mw-audio-ca2-6812p-6-5-inch-coaxial-full-range-speaker
I have these speakers mounted in 0.6 cu ft sealed enclosures. They have excellent imaging and staging. Great separation. Off-axis response is very good.
On some high frequencies though, like high piano keys, they hurt my ears.
Now, I'm 63 and wear modern hearing aids in both ears, with most of the loss in the high frequencies.
So, I'm wondering if there are any mods... invasive or non-invasive... that can help attenuate this.
It may be that my hearing aids are adjusted a bit "high." I might be able to do something there.
But are there other ways to attenuate this? Substitute a different capacitor? Place some material over the tweeter? Dampen the frame?
Thanks for any suggestions.
I have these speakers mounted in 0.6 cu ft sealed enclosures. They have excellent imaging and staging. Great separation. Off-axis response is very good.
On some high frequencies though, like high piano keys, they hurt my ears.
Now, I'm 63 and wear modern hearing aids in both ears, with most of the loss in the high frequencies.
So, I'm wondering if there are any mods... invasive or non-invasive... that can help attenuate this.
It may be that my hearing aids are adjusted a bit "high." I might be able to do something there.
But are there other ways to attenuate this? Substitute a different capacitor? Place some material over the tweeter? Dampen the frame?
Thanks for any suggestions.
I take a 20 to 20000 sweep (youtube) and listen for unwanted peaks.
Then I go here:
Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components
Use this calculator as a starter and fiddle about a bit.
Then I go here:
Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components
Use this calculator as a starter and fiddle about a bit.
What quality of sound do you hear with the same music on other systems - it may not be the hearing aids at all.
The specs don't list the XO frequency, so it's hard to say if the tweeter is entirely at fault, but judging from the photo, the XO cap will is as cheap an NPE as money can buy. This is often the case with drivers at this price range.
you might want to consider upgrading to a small poly film, and if possible relocate to behind the magnet .
What equipment is in the signal path, amps, etc upstream? If it's practical to inject some EQ before the amp(s), you could attempt to mitigate it there.
The specs don't list the XO frequency, so it's hard to say if the tweeter is entirely at fault, but judging from the photo, the XO cap will is as cheap an NPE as money can buy. This is often the case with drivers at this price range.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
you might want to consider upgrading to a small poly film, and if possible relocate to behind the magnet .
What equipment is in the signal path, amps, etc upstream? If it's practical to inject some EQ before the amp(s), you could attempt to mitigate it there.
"Upgrading" with better capacitor will not help. This is standard ceiling speaker, with overly loud mid/high frequencies coming from the midbass driver, not from the tweeter. You need a proper low-pass filter for the midbass - try with 1 mH inductor in series (before, cut the wires between the cone and the tweeter/cap, and connect the tweeter/cap to the amp). Much better low-pass filter is second-order (with inductor and capacitor), but it requires measurements.
Well, as we don't know exactly where they cross over, or exactly how "high" is the area where they're misbehaving, some of thix is conjecture. But it is hard to disagree with the position that a cheap ceiling / jukebox speaker is unlikely to be free of issues when using them as done here.
Mind you, I've installed a couple of background music systems in restaurants using plastic enclosured coaxes by Dayton - they did cost approx double the $25 (each?) of these - and weren't being used in a serious music system, but they sounded far better that I thought they should.
Something else that might be a factor for the OP is tinnitus -which I can attest much like presbyopia is one of the joys of senior citizenship
.
Mind you, I've installed a couple of background music systems in restaurants using plastic enclosured coaxes by Dayton - they did cost approx double the $25 (each?) of these - and weren't being used in a serious music system, but they sounded far better that I thought they should.
Something else that might be a factor for the OP is tinnitus -which I can attest much like presbyopia is one of the joys of senior citizenship
.
The cap that is present in these speakers says "50v 3u3." But if the issue is with the woofer at the higher frequencies, I don't know that I can do much about that.
I had installed these same speakers in a smaller cabinet about 0.30 cu ft. and they really sound great. But when I put another same pair into this 0.60 cu ft cabinet, that's when I started getting this high pitch that is nasty to my ears. Thing is, I had a friend over the other day and these larger speakers were playing and I asked her if she heard that high pitch/uncomfortable sound... and she said she didn't... and she has normal hearing.
I don't have tinnitis... just significant hearing loss. Any chance of calming these down with any fabric/felt over the tweeter? Tried something and it sort of made the difference but the high pitched piano sounds still are there.
As suggested, maybe this just isn't the proper "application" for these speakers. I was thinking about getting some Tang Band full rangers.
I had installed these same speakers in a smaller cabinet about 0.30 cu ft. and they really sound great. But when I put another same pair into this 0.60 cu ft cabinet, that's when I started getting this high pitch that is nasty to my ears. Thing is, I had a friend over the other day and these larger speakers were playing and I asked her if she heard that high pitch/uncomfortable sound... and she said she didn't... and she has normal hearing.
I don't have tinnitis... just significant hearing loss. Any chance of calming these down with any fabric/felt over the tweeter? Tried something and it sort of made the difference but the high pitched piano sounds still are there.
As suggested, maybe this just isn't the proper "application" for these speakers. I was thinking about getting some Tang Band full rangers.
Well, that woofer/tweeter combo has some design flaws but it is not intended for hifi so why worry ? A real concentric/coaxial tweeter should be housed in the gap inside the woofer's former ( voice coil ), thus using woofer's cone as a waveguide.
A real tweeter should have no problem to emit substantial power over 8 kHz and keep it over one or two octaves.
I see that if you cut the two wires that come out of the cone that bring power to the tweeter, you can make it indipendent, allowing you to try different filters...
A real tweeter should have no problem to emit substantial power over 8 kHz and keep it over one or two octaves.
I see that if you cut the two wires that come out of the cone that bring power to the tweeter, you can make it indipendent, allowing you to try different filters...
if that's like the old Audax TW51 type tweeter, it would be a good performer. If you had a mic setup, I think there's a free real time analyzer called "SynRTA" - seeing what the woofer and tweeter do would help selecting a filter. I think there are RTA applications for cellphones and ~$15 mics available too.
I have some Frazier CAT 40 with the tweeter in front of the woofer - don't know if they can play a square wave, but do sound very clear for lower priced components
I have some Frazier CAT 40 with the tweeter in front of the woofer - don't know if they can play a square wave, but do sound very clear for lower priced components
I think a lot of people with hearing loss may have a problem called "recruitment" which can make some sounds painful. Hearing aids could possibly exacerbate this since they amplify, but I don't have any real experience with hearing aid issues.
You could add a resistor in series with the cap if the problem is the tweeter. If the problem is the woofer, just turn it so it isn't pointing directly at you. I've heard of people pointing speakers at the wall and listening to the reflections
You could add a resistor in series with the cap if the problem is the tweeter. If the problem is the woofer, just turn it so it isn't pointing directly at you. I've heard of people pointing speakers at the wall and listening to the reflections
Thanks for all the comments. Yes these are "cheaper" speakers... averaging about $20 each or less if on sale.
I'm going to now turn this thread in a different direction. I don't want to have to modify electronically these speakers. But I do want to keep a single axis, such as is these coaxial speakers.
Question: Can anyone recommend a good coaxial 6.5" replacement speaker that has better specs and sound production than the ones I have?
Question: How about replacing them with some Tang Bands such as Tang Band W6-2144 6-1/2" Paper Cone Full Range Driver 8 Ohm
...
or AudioNirvana 6.5 Classics or Super 6.5 Fullrange Loudspeakers. DIY Loudspeakers. Loudspeaker kits. Audio Nirvana, Lowther, Fostex. Vacuum Tube Amplifiers For Sale
Other 6.5 suggestions? I need to keep under $200/pair... well under even better.
Thanks.
I'm going to now turn this thread in a different direction. I don't want to have to modify electronically these speakers. But I do want to keep a single axis, such as is these coaxial speakers.
Question: Can anyone recommend a good coaxial 6.5" replacement speaker that has better specs and sound production than the ones I have?
Question: How about replacing them with some Tang Bands such as Tang Band W6-2144 6-1/2" Paper Cone Full Range Driver 8 Ohm
...
or AudioNirvana 6.5 Classics or Super 6.5 Fullrange Loudspeakers. DIY Loudspeakers. Loudspeaker kits. Audio Nirvana, Lowther, Fostex. Vacuum Tube Amplifiers For Sale
Other 6.5 suggestions? I need to keep under $200/pair... well under even better.
Thanks.
I found these coaxial speakers had better separation, imaging, and soundstage than my Polk Audio TSi200s. They simply sounded better than my Polks to my ears.
Hard to argue with that. But it sounds like you want to teach me something about "coaxial" speakers.
oh, no, I did suddendly stop because it wasn't my computer...as I just wanted to say that the tweeter ahead of the woofer's cone is on axis only frontally.The more you rotate around the physical speaker ( if it is a box, then.. a box ), it becomes clear that the kind of emission is different and the two sources do not sit on the same axys. Moreover, the tweeter's emission is anticipated respect to the woofer, being it 1-2 inches distant from woofer's center ( the voice coil).
A recent famous speaker that adopts a correct concentric tweeter is the Kef LS 50. See also KEF CONNECTS > AUDIO-VISUAL IMMERSION
For the diy market, I know only of Seas that can be had worldwide
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/coaxial/
Italian brand Audison makes good cheap coaxials, but for car.
Audison Prima - APX 4
The models you looked at are fullrange/wideband type with the whizzer cone
which are fullrange indeed, like this sub-forum.
Once you add a tweeter, it becomes multi-way. And yes, electrical filtering is needed.
A recent famous speaker that adopts a correct concentric tweeter is the Kef LS 50. See also KEF CONNECTS > AUDIO-VISUAL IMMERSION
For the diy market, I know only of Seas that can be had worldwide
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/coaxial/
Italian brand Audison makes good cheap coaxials, but for car.
Audison Prima - APX 4
The models you looked at are fullrange/wideband type with the whizzer cone
which are fullrange indeed, like this sub-forum.
Once you add a tweeter, it becomes multi-way. And yes, electrical filtering is needed.
referring back to post #1 i think reducing the level of your hearing aids may solve the problem.some of the better ones are frequency response adjustable but that's up to your audiologist.
you've expressed your preference for these speakers and your reasons are valid but i do think that their good qualities makes them more efficient in the upper registers and push your "aids" to distortion sooner.
you've expressed your preference for these speakers and your reasons are valid but i do think that their good qualities makes them more efficient in the upper registers and push your "aids" to distortion sooner.
Thanks for this post. I've been doing some hearing tests with particular sounds that are distorted/hurt my ears. I'm pretty sure that my hearing aids can be adjusted in this frequency range. I'll be having them adjusted in the near future to hear if it makes a difference. Thanks again.
well let's not say it's all the hearing aids until a reference or adjustments are made.
there may well be something in the crossover/overlap region of this co-ax that your aids are allowing you to hear in a "magnified" fashion.
using a "normal hearing" person to corroborate your perception/findings is going to lead you astray as the ability to distinguish fine detail or subtleties is not uniform as a good many studies have shown.
one thing comes to mind if changing the box size made a noticeable difference to you perhaps your detecting a box resonance product?
there may well be something in the crossover/overlap region of this co-ax that your aids are allowing you to hear in a "magnified" fashion.
using a "normal hearing" person to corroborate your perception/findings is going to lead you astray as the ability to distinguish fine detail or subtleties is not uniform as a good many studies have shown.
one thing comes to mind if changing the box size made a noticeable difference to you perhaps your detecting a box resonance product?
Chris, I don't have any measuring equipment, and have never tried/used any on speakers. Can you suggest an EASY way to measure for any unwanted peaks, etc?
I don't have any way to EQ these other than the standard bass and treble knobs. I've been using the treble knob and can dial out some of the offending frequencies or their peaks, but it still remains.
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