Konnichiwa,
Sounds to me like you need the AFTERBURNER. It's well above 90db/W/m but that should be no issue.
What does your wife accept?
On another note, you could always try to semi-clone the Reference 3A Speaker, which reputedly works well with SE Amp's, if being a little on the quiet side. The Woofer appears to be custom on Audax Base, tweeter IIRC Seas 28mm Softdome, crossover is just one Capacitor on the tweeter.
The old HM210C0 if you can still get it had a very benign rolloff on the topend and sounded just dandy run straight from the Amp, in a suitable box. Add a Tweeter that can handle a little power and a cap on the tweeter to block the Bass and roll off the upper midrange in that driver, wire out of phase and add a series resistor to attenuate.
From the current Audax Range the HP210G0; AM210G0; HM210G6 look nice to run "open top" and if the HM210C0 is still available (madisound lists it) that would be my choice. Being "BBC prejudiced" I'd probably try to use the Audax TW034X0 and supplement it with a supertweeter (one of the little Audax's like TW010I10 above 12KHz or so?).
With the HM210C0 and a TW034X0 I'd probably try a 3R9 resistor on the tweeter and a pair of Cap's, 2.7uFand 1.5uF in parallel, nice cabinet around 20 Liters.
If the absolutely minimal X-Over does not work, LC Audio's series X-Over seems to work well for a lot of people. You can also get a nice medium efficiency 8" Paper cone driver with a sensible rolloff from Vifa, not sure about the Model.
Another good choice is the XP-Coned Seas Coaxial 6.5". This too can use just a Capacitor on the tweeter as X-Over and comes close to 90db/W/m. Reimyo use a version of that Driver (with metal dome tweeter and glassfibre cone) in their little Monitor, which usually gets powered by their 300B Amp....
Sayonara
MIKET said:
Sounds to me like you need the AFTERBURNER. It's well above 90db/W/m but that should be no issue.
MIKET said:3. Must look good enough to have the wife accept it into the house,
the garage doesn't have very good acoustics.
What does your wife accept?
On another note, you could always try to semi-clone the Reference 3A Speaker, which reputedly works well with SE Amp's, if being a little on the quiet side. The Woofer appears to be custom on Audax Base, tweeter IIRC Seas 28mm Softdome, crossover is just one Capacitor on the tweeter.
The old HM210C0 if you can still get it had a very benign rolloff on the topend and sounded just dandy run straight from the Amp, in a suitable box. Add a Tweeter that can handle a little power and a cap on the tweeter to block the Bass and roll off the upper midrange in that driver, wire out of phase and add a series resistor to attenuate.
From the current Audax Range the HP210G0; AM210G0; HM210G6 look nice to run "open top" and if the HM210C0 is still available (madisound lists it) that would be my choice. Being "BBC prejudiced" I'd probably try to use the Audax TW034X0 and supplement it with a supertweeter (one of the little Audax's like TW010I10 above 12KHz or so?).
With the HM210C0 and a TW034X0 I'd probably try a 3R9 resistor on the tweeter and a pair of Cap's, 2.7uFand 1.5uF in parallel, nice cabinet around 20 Liters.
If the absolutely minimal X-Over does not work, LC Audio's series X-Over seems to work well for a lot of people. You can also get a nice medium efficiency 8" Paper cone driver with a sensible rolloff from Vifa, not sure about the Model.
Another good choice is the XP-Coned Seas Coaxial 6.5". This too can use just a Capacitor on the tweeter as X-Over and comes close to 90db/W/m. Reimyo use a version of that Driver (with metal dome tweeter and glassfibre cone) in their little Monitor, which usually gets powered by their 300B Amp....
Sayonara
How bout Decware's HDT?
I built myself a pair of Decware HDTs loaded with Fostex FE206e. Sounds amazing and was originally designed for SET amps. The most impressive thing is the imaging. The high midrange lacks a little of that hair raising vocal feel, but I suspect that has more to do with my amp (gainclone). If you have all the tools you need, and don't spend a lot of money on veneer, you could do these for right around $300 maybe a bit more.
Here's a link:
http://decware.com/HDT/hdt.htm
-JTC
I built myself a pair of Decware HDTs loaded with Fostex FE206e. Sounds amazing and was originally designed for SET amps. The most impressive thing is the imaging. The high midrange lacks a little of that hair raising vocal feel, but I suspect that has more to do with my amp (gainclone). If you have all the tools you need, and don't spend a lot of money on veneer, you could do these for right around $300 maybe a bit more.
Here's a link:
http://decware.com/HDT/hdt.htm
-JTC
RS 40-1197
The drivers were constantly sold out on the website so you could not add them to your cart to buy them. I was tired of waiting so I went down to a store. They said you can backorder them, so I placed an order for 4 drivers, paid upfront and they said they would call when they arrive. When I followed up a while later, they said that the product was no longer listed on the computer so they refunded my money. When I got home, I checked the website and there was no longer a listing for the 40-1197! So I dunno what is up with this item.
When did you make your order. Also, let me know if you actually get them. Perhaps I am not persistent enough.
Regards,
GM.
The drivers were constantly sold out on the website so you could not add them to your cart to buy them. I was tired of waiting so I went down to a store. They said you can backorder them, so I placed an order for 4 drivers, paid upfront and they said they would call when they arrive. When I followed up a while later, they said that the product was no longer listed on the computer so they refunded my money. When I got home, I checked the website and there was no longer a listing for the 40-1197! So I dunno what is up with this item.
When did you make your order. Also, let me know if you actually get them. Perhaps I am not persistent enough.
Regards,
GM.
planet10 said:
Re: Re: Best Budget Louspeaker for SE Amps
The Reference 3A Speaker knockoff sounds like my cup of tea. I have a pair of afterburner knockoffs in the living room in the home theatre powered by a Sony SS amp and they are doing a good job with that, they are overpowering and in the smaller den where the 300B amp is.
Kuei Yang Wang said:
The Reference 3A Speaker knockoff sounds like my cup of tea. I have a pair of afterburner knockoffs in the living room in the home theatre powered by a Sony SS amp and they are doing a good job with that, they are overpowering and in the smaller den where the 300B amp is.
Miket,
Another FE vote
A short time ago a friend provided me with the measurements of the Cain & Cain Abby TQWT speaker which uses FE166 or 167 for near or far field listening. I built the far field version and have never been happier to toss Madisound $150 for drivers. I use a pair of flea power 350b monos, around 6w ea. I prefere (love) these speakers with Acoustic style music and female vocals.
Much respect to Terry Cain for designing these beauties.
Another FE vote
A short time ago a friend provided me with the measurements of the Cain & Cain Abby TQWT speaker which uses FE166 or 167 for near or far field listening. I built the far field version and have never been happier to toss Madisound $150 for drivers. I use a pair of flea power 350b monos, around 6w ea. I prefere (love) these speakers with Acoustic style music and female vocals.
Much respect to Terry Cain for designing these beauties.
Re: Rs 40-1197
This is an email I got from RS today and it explains why I have not been able to find these drivers in about 6 months. The good news is that a pair is up for sale on eBay.
Cheers,
GM.
From: Answers@RadioShack Add to Address Book,
To: gmilitano@yahoo.ca
Subject: [<1413692>]RE:
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:57:48 -0400
X-Mailer: CSMTPConnection v1.3
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Return-Path: swcpeng@radioshackcanada.com
Message-ID: <BARMCL01YTHrdusluCB0000016a@BAREX01.radioshack.ca>
Dear Mr. Militano:
Thank you for your inquiry. This speaker was discontinued in 2003. We
do not have any stock of the unit left in our warehouse.
Thank you,
Margaret
Customer Service
RadioShack Canada
----Original Objective----
From: Giovanni Militano [gmilitano@yahoo.ca]
Sent: 10/5/04 9:40:01 PM
To: Answers @ RadioShack Canada [swcpeng@radioshackcanada.com]
Cc:
Subject: [<1413692>]
Hi,
I am looking for product number 40-1197. It is a 4" raw speaker.
planet10 said:
This is an email I got from RS today and it explains why I have not been able to find these drivers in about 6 months. The good news is that a pair is up for sale on eBay.
Cheers,
GM.
From: Answers@RadioShack Add to Address Book,
To: gmilitano@yahoo.ca
Subject: [<1413692>]RE:
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:57:48 -0400
X-Mailer: CSMTPConnection v1.3
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Return-Path: swcpeng@radioshackcanada.com
Message-ID: <BARMCL01YTHrdusluCB0000016a@BAREX01.radioshack.ca>
Dear Mr. Militano:
Thank you for your inquiry. This speaker was discontinued in 2003. We
do not have any stock of the unit left in our warehouse.
Thank you,
Margaret
Customer Service
RadioShack Canada
----Original Objective----
From: Giovanni Militano [gmilitano@yahoo.ca]
Sent: 10/5/04 9:40:01 PM
To: Answers @ RadioShack Canada [swcpeng@radioshackcanada.com]
Cc:
Subject: [<1413692>]
Hi,
I am looking for product number 40-1197. It is a 4" raw speaker.
Re: Re: Rs 40-1197
interesting... it was discontinued in 2003, but those were purple box. It then showed back up, at a lower price, in about January 2004.
Rich in Calgary has bought a number of these new black & Gold box ones... and as i said it showed up in the system of every Radio Shack i stopped in and asked and i have 6 on order We'll see.
It isn't on the web site anymore -- it was for a while.
dave
gmilitano said:
interesting... it was discontinued in 2003, but those were purple box. It then showed back up, at a lower price, in about January 2004.
Rich in Calgary has bought a number of these new black & Gold box ones... and as i said it showed up in the system of every Radio Shack i stopped in and asked and i have 6 on order We'll see.
It isn't on the web site anymore -- it was for a while.
dave
Banned
Joined 2002
Saurav said:I built these for about $300 in drivers, probably closer to $400 if you include MDF and veneer. I had many of the crossover parts left over from earlier projects. I'm still playing with the crossover, but I think they should be 95 - 96 dB overall.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I have an active XO to the woofers, but you could build a passive one and run the whole thing off a single amp if you wanted to. The 'woofer' is the Eminence Beta 12CX from my HE12.1 kit, and the drivers on top are an Audax PR170M0 and a Fostex FT17H.
It probably fails your 'looks good' requirement miserably, but I'm sure someone with better woodworking skills than me could take the same basic concept and do a much better job implementing it
Here is a possible alternative to what you speak of:
Tweeter - Fostex FT 17H $35.65 from Madiound
Midrange - Ciare 8.38 MR1 $42.00 http://www.ciare.com/oem/pdf/838MR1.pdf from http://www.assistanceaudio.com/
Woofer - Goldwood GW-1258 12" PRO WOOFER $38.50
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-382
That leaves me about $67.70 for cabinets and crossovers if I don't count shipping.
MIKET,
Of the choices there, I would have no problem with the Ciare mid crossed to the Fostex which both are pretty well made pieces, but the Goldwood looks suspicious. I don't know anything about them, but my experieces with other low priced woofers is not the best.
The Goldwood will be well down in amplitude if you tune it to near Fs compared to the Ciare, and with any kind of baffle step circuit the sound will be tilted upward, sounding thin. The balance will be off.
That is, unless you want to build a complex passive crossover to attend to the problems, or bi-amp and go active with the crossover, and thus gain a volume control on the 12". This would be cheaper than buying a second woofer for each channel to get the amplitude up on the low end, which is what you would need.
Incidently, the BMS 15" L15N620 on the Assistance site would be a real sweetheart from the looks of it. Smooth enough to crossover quite easily to the Ciare 8". And would pair up better at the crossover, say 300 Hz.
Maybe the people at Assistance could suggest a good pairing to the mid, but the lower mids, mid bass, and bass will establish the foundation for the music, and shouln't be short changed.
MHO, of course.
Tim
Of the choices there, I would have no problem with the Ciare mid crossed to the Fostex which both are pretty well made pieces, but the Goldwood looks suspicious. I don't know anything about them, but my experieces with other low priced woofers is not the best.
The Goldwood will be well down in amplitude if you tune it to near Fs compared to the Ciare, and with any kind of baffle step circuit the sound will be tilted upward, sounding thin. The balance will be off.
That is, unless you want to build a complex passive crossover to attend to the problems, or bi-amp and go active with the crossover, and thus gain a volume control on the 12". This would be cheaper than buying a second woofer for each channel to get the amplitude up on the low end, which is what you would need.
Incidently, the BMS 15" L15N620 on the Assistance site would be a real sweetheart from the looks of it. Smooth enough to crossover quite easily to the Ciare 8". And would pair up better at the crossover, say 300 Hz.
Maybe the people at Assistance could suggest a good pairing to the mid, but the lower mids, mid bass, and bass will establish the foundation for the music, and shouln't be short changed.
MHO, of course.
Tim
WWTWW option
Here is another possibility:
4 Dayton RS150S-8
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=295-362&DID=7
Vifa H26TG-35-06
http://www.madisound.com/VIFA PDFS/VIFA CLASSIC PDFS/h26tg-35-06e.pdf
Calculated efficency should be 94 dB and cost of drivers $266.70
Here is another possibility:
4 Dayton RS150S-8
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=295-362&DID=7
Vifa H26TG-35-06
http://www.madisound.com/VIFA PDFS/VIFA CLASSIC PDFS/h26tg-35-06e.pdf
Calculated efficency should be 94 dB and cost of drivers $266.70
Proteus
Well, I don't really see anything there to get excited about. Big break up peaks up high would take some steep crossover slopes and maybe even notch filtering, average sensitivity, highish Fs.
Price is good, though.
One design that comes close:
http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/Proteus.html
You don't have to build them identically, so long as the box is reasonably close to the volume needed. He used 32 liters tuned to 45 Hz for 91 dB. It is a 5 ohm load, though, so I don't know what your amps will handle, but is fairly uniform.
The midbass drivers are Seas CB17RCY/P at about $50 each (Madisound), and a more expensive Seas Excel tweeter that would push you over the budget limit, but money probably well spent.
There are the lesser priced Vifa which also that might work. But you would need to do a search for a design.
Tim
Well, I don't really see anything there to get excited about. Big break up peaks up high would take some steep crossover slopes and maybe even notch filtering, average sensitivity, highish Fs.
Price is good, though.
One design that comes close:
http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/Proteus.html
You don't have to build them identically, so long as the box is reasonably close to the volume needed. He used 32 liters tuned to 45 Hz for 91 dB. It is a 5 ohm load, though, so I don't know what your amps will handle, but is fairly uniform.
The midbass drivers are Seas CB17RCY/P at about $50 each (Madisound), and a more expensive Seas Excel tweeter that would push you over the budget limit, but money probably well spent.
There are the lesser priced Vifa which also that might work. But you would need to do a search for a design.
Tim
Tube Amp solution
If you are trying to get high efficiency for the tube gear and still keep the impedence up, check the "Access" 7" dual voice coil drivers:
http://www.zalytron.com/
They may not be the last word in bleeding edge design, but a good value.
If you were to use a pair each channel, you wire these series for individual coils/parallel for the 8 ohm load. This would provide good efficiency at ~93dB midband, and allow for 3 dB for baffle step and still meet your target. Crossover at 2K - 2.2K Hz though if possible.
Tim
If you are trying to get high efficiency for the tube gear and still keep the impedence up, check the "Access" 7" dual voice coil drivers:
http://www.zalytron.com/
They may not be the last word in bleeding edge design, but a good value.
If you were to use a pair each channel, you wire these series for individual coils/parallel for the 8 ohm load. This would provide good efficiency at ~93dB midband, and allow for 3 dB for baffle step and still meet your target. Crossover at 2K - 2.2K Hz though if possible.
Tim
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