Wonderful job! Now, because we listen at a distance, please place the mic at ear level at your listening position. Crank the volume up to 100 db on the horn at the listening position and compare.
I've not run a side by side shooting match, so this is exciting.
Love your passion for knowledge,JShadzi.
John
here's what I get for 12pe32 in a little Karlson K12 - it works well with a K-tube on top. I probably would prefer a single vent over the distributed slit vent when high spl and low frequencies are involved. That pym1298 (like the later Kappa12a) can hit hard - the attack sounds better than my Klipschorn (but "different" as the Khorn has stronger mids and an octave deeper bass)
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I don't see how you're going to get clean reproduction above 200 hz in a folded horn. You'll get sound, but will it be pretty? That's why I don't fold my mid bass horns.
Try it and see. It's all about what your ears enjoy... not to mention, the B&C 12PE32 is an excellent driver to have around.
hey John , I know what you're saying on folded horn coloration - got one with some help from Bill W. - probably good for what is is - "C" path http://i.imgur.com/TMjjNsq.gif
http://i.imgur.com/7E9h3Bz.jpg
I always wanted the S9 - now have no room due to collecting stuff.
http://i.imgur.com/7E9h3Bz.jpg
I always wanted the S9 - now have no room due to collecting stuff.
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Thanks John, will do more measuring, the room definitely starts messing with things but measurements seem good above 200hz or so, I just got the Seos24 horns today so I'll be able to get the Radian CD set up tonight and really dial these in =)
And thanks for the kind words, meeting you has been thrilling, thanks for opening up horns and making them so accessible to me, your help, expertise and enthusiasm is very appreciated!
Javad
Hello Javad.
As you work with these and dial them in I would like to ask for a favor. Both you and I use active systems and both have powerful amps driving the midbass such that horn efficiency is not a driver in our choice between direct radiators vs horns. I would very much appreciate reading your listening impressions of the midbass horn vs direct radiators you have tried. Sense of impact, truth to tone, musicality, you name it. I'm interested in your opininion about what sounds best to you.
In my case I already have 400W monoblocks to be used for the midbass and my wife doesn't like large midbass horns in the living room, so if I am to try this (tempted) I'd be reassured knowing the driver is sound quality and not an efficiency I don't need. Need to pick my battles!
BTW, what are the overall dimensions of this horn? Length with driver housing included?
As you work with these and dial them in I would like to ask for a favor. Both you and I use active systems and both have powerful amps driving the midbass such that horn efficiency is not a driver in our choice between direct radiators vs horns. I would very much appreciate reading your listening impressions of the midbass horn vs direct radiators you have tried. Sense of impact, truth to tone, musicality, you name it. I'm interested in your opininion about what sounds best to you.
In my case I already have 400W monoblocks to be used for the midbass and my wife doesn't like large midbass horns in the living room, so if I am to try this (tempted) I'd be reassured knowing the driver is sound quality and not an efficiency I don't need. Need to pick my battles!
BTW, what are the overall dimensions of this horn? Length with driver housing included?
I've spent about 10 hours listening to all my reference music in the following configurations:
1 - both horn and 12" ported by themselves full range and In a bandpass range of 100-700hz
2 - combined with a Seos24 and Radian 745PB from 500-19khz
3 - added in PA465S ported subwoofer 100hz below
In all cases EQ'd flat w/in a 5 db range
My initial conclusions:
1 - Pro to the horn for efficiency, about 5db which is HUGE! I have a lot of power so both get absurdly loud, like police are on the way, it's still 90db outside the house despite the house being sealed up.
2 - Pro to the ported woofer for natural and open sound, more of what I'm USED to listening to. The horn definitely has a unique sound to it, not bad but not normally what I'd say is "natural" sounding. The B&C 12PE32 in a ported box is a VERY nice sounding midbass and midrange, very clear, fast and punchy.
3 - slight advantage to midbass punch or speed, that "crack" is just a little faster and more splintery in the horn, especially once you really crank the volume. This really comes into play on drum rim shots, snares, any sort of percussive sound. It will literally scare you on a passage you've heard a million times. Doesn't manifest in all types of music listening, and then ported box is no slouch, possibly the second punchier midbass I've ever heard. Bottom line the 12PE32 is a VERY GOOD midbass.
4 - Size, advantage ported, horns are just so much bigger than their enclosure loaded brethren, I'm struggling with size a little as instead of being tall when they get bigger horn like this get longer, which takes up more floor space.
In my case I already have 400W monoblocks to be used for the midbass and my wife doesn't like large midbass horns in the living room, so if I am to try this (tempted) I'd be reassured knowing the driver is sound quality and not an efficiency I don't need. Need to pick my battles!
I hear you! Read above, sound quality is there, I'm not sure it's worth the size if that's a major concern, this 12" in a ported box is simply amazing from 100-1000hz, my assessment is you get 90% of the transient performance in the ported box not including the efficiency gain.
About 36" long and 20" square
Thanks!
Javad
Regarding the length of the mid bass horn: I fabricate paper mache horns that require a longer mid bass section to keep things time aligned. I cross my paper horns at 450 hz, so the power and warmth of the mid bass is present, but the clarity of the high frequency paper mache horn steals the show.
Attachments
the 20 by 20 mouth wooden horn, most of my 500 hz upper midrange horns have a bigger mouth than that
Ahh, well it's not a "bass" horn, it only plays down to 130hz flat or so, drops off sharply from there, but does 130hz to about 800hz very well.
Thanks Javad.
Very insightful.
The size tradeoff is certainly one I'm accounting for, especially in light of the wife's view.
Sounds like the horn has some coloration you aren't used to. And sounds like the gain in transient speed is there but maybe not worth it based on other tradeoffs.
BTW, why did you opt for a vented box for the direct radiator? Isn't sealed going to have better speed? FWIW, my drafted design includes double 10" per side in sealed boxes, 80 to 500Hz or thereabouts. Beyma 10G40.
Are you planning to continue to listen to the mid bass horns and tweak to see if you end up liking them better?
Regards
Horacio
I used to run a pair of 12" Kappa Pros per side. They were sweet sounding, but when limited to 450 hz, they weren't strong enough to augment my paper mache horns. When you add that with time alignment issues, mid bass horns became a life saver (for my ears at any rate). It takes a great deal of mid bass snap to couple properly with a strong 450 hz horn.
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