Seems like turntables with the mass of the platter are not terribly susceptible to "jitter" from a direct drive motor. Although I do seem to recall a problem with one brand of DD TT where the motor drive had some sort of issue with the pulses and speed control. Not sure that is "jitter"... I guess what you are saying is that there was an issue with pulse timing or pulse duration, or both?? In a system with speed control via feedback?
but how does this relate to the gist of the conversation?
but how does this relate to the gist of the conversation?
Jitter has made my smile brighter, my IQ double, and any fat turned into hard muscle!
Actually, I recorded and mixed that using the Lynx. Although it has a sound, and I can still hear its' ADC in that recording, it's jitter was low enough that I could hear exactly, or pretty well anyway, what my panning adjustments were doing and what they would sound like played back on another hi-fi system. It's much harder to make a decision about panning when the image is spread out. The 300Hz frequencies are going to be blurred together some of the time, and I suppose I hear it as an averaging effect. If too blurry, it doesn't matter too much how I pan because I can't really trade it off with EQ, it just too blurry to make a decision on. Of course, it doesn't matter if it will only be played back on cell phones or cheap stereos, but if by chance someone has a mastering quality reproduction system, they will be able to hear what I did along with all the other little microscopic flaws I couldn't fix.
C'mon Scott!!
What parameter(s) measures "imaging"??
Are you serious?
I want a new "imaging analyzer"! Who did you say was making them?
Rhode & Schwartz? Agilent?
Can I borrow yours? Huh, can I, can I, please!!!
_-_-
I've met Pease. I've worked around many like him. Pease is not a music guy. In a glancing way he has helped audio but brains like his don't listen to music, they calculate it.
Quilter is another.
Very smart at electronics. No soul what-so-ever.
Unless physics has changed a stereo signal starts out as an electrical one, voltage/current vs time, no free parameters.
OK so you haven't taken any data on phase and amplitude vs. polar pattern and even tried to tie it into actual (no peeking) listening tests. Or maybe room/speaker effects, the reflection off that 20' high brick wall on the right can't possibly affect what I hear.
As far as I can tell the whole purpose of the line of discussion is to slip in the Bybee, etc. BS.
That comment is beneath you. I knew Bob as a friend for almost 40yr. engineers are soulless machines right, (remainder self censored).
Actually I find a scope for creativity in almost anything. If I can't find it I try to figure out how to survive doing something else!
Right now I'm waiting for some windfall or legacy so that I can afford to do music again. In the meantime electronics pays the bills. But it is not, even at that, devoid of soul. I couldn't manage it if it were.
I've had clients who supposed that I had some immense ring binder of designs, and when they wanted something I would turn to the appropriate page, remove it and copy it, dodging out the dates etc., and then send them an invoice for many hours. Today it would be some computer database rather than the ring binder. Others supposed I would be interested in reverse-engineering something.
Neither of those hold interest for me.
Right now I'm waiting for some windfall or legacy so that I can afford to do music again. In the meantime electronics pays the bills. But it is not, even at that, devoid of soul. I couldn't manage it if it were.
I've had clients who supposed that I had some immense ring binder of designs, and when they wanted something I would turn to the appropriate page, remove it and copy it, dodging out the dates etc., and then send them an invoice for many hours. Today it would be some computer database rather than the ring binder. Others supposed I would be interested in reverse-engineering something.
Neither of those hold interest for me.
My mother quilted the AD712 layout into a huge comforter, that's soul. I need to find my pics, SY the lady would be very impressed.
Ditto, Brad. But I certainly wouldn't call creative means of solving problems and improvements/optimizations culminating in entirely new solutions as "soul". Or that somehow all of that work can somehow transmit something down the ether to a consumer. It either works or it doesn't, regardless of how many ephemeral feelings/gesticulations I wrap the product's story with.
I try to tell people that one of my favorite scenes from a movie is from Apollo 13, where they lock a bunch of engineers in a room with all the stuff available on the spacecraft to hack together the CO2 canisters. It explains my mindset so clearly. Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2YZnTL596Q
But, like Scott, I certainly take offense to the suggestion that "those types" have a lack of soul.
I try to tell people that one of my favorite scenes from a movie is from Apollo 13, where they lock a bunch of engineers in a room with all the stuff available on the spacecraft to hack together the CO2 canisters. It explains my mindset so clearly. Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2YZnTL596Q
But, like Scott, I certainly take offense to the suggestion that "those types" have a lack of soul.
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My mother quilted the AD712 layout into a huge comforter, that's soul. I need to find my pics, SY the lady would be very impressed.
I take it all back.
That's one heck of an impressive quilt!
Actually take REAL offense
. I met a couple of guys (EE's too) at LIGO that basically bet their entire productive careers (20+ yr.) on something that might not have worked. I'm not sure the public quite understands the commitment and amount of detail that goes into this kind of work.
No Bybee BS here. I think there is probably some more work with measurements and studies that can be done to better understand what some people claim to hear. In general, people tend to be quick to attribute some claims as due to imagination. And some, if not most, of such claims are probably due to imagination. But the professional sound mix and mastering engineers who consistently produce good records are probably not imagining too much. Most of the successful ones are not mystical audiophile types. And on average, they probably have more highly developed listening skills than most circuit designers. It would be interesting to see some of the electronics experts here try to make something that sounds like a professionally made record. There may be some who can, but it is it's own field of expertise and it isn't easy.
Yeah, exactly, like I am in my career trajectory because I REALLY want to make things that help people. That's not a unique perspective among my colleagues, across a bevy of disciplines. So evidently our scientific nature and attention to "what we know, at the moment, matters" somehow makes us less human--not cool.
With audio we facilitate the production and reproduction of music, so that is pretty close to something to evoke soul, however that is defined. Your drive seems to be more one of a problem solver, mine a bit more of an artist. Neither of us are likely to fit the stereotype much loved by some, of geeks with pocket protectors, adhesive-taped black-rimmed glasses, and with white lab coats and clipboards.
But some people are amusical, the late novelist Nabokov for example. I wouldn't have expected him to be moved by some improvement in sound reproduction if he wasn't enjoying music to begin with.
There is also a fascinating article in a recent Nature about an isolated group in the Amazon in whose music there is no preference for consonances versus dissonances, which many have supposed are innate. It is little surprise that they don't do anything resembling polyphony, and the researchers could not persuade any of their musicians to play simultaneously. I would also wonder at how they would respond to music constructed along the lines of Western "extended common practice", and on from that, to the quality of reproduction equipment.
Forty thousand headmen couldn't make me change my mind
If I had to take the choice between the deafman and the blind
I know just where my feet should go and that's enough for me
I turned around and knocked them down and walked across the sea
(Forty Thousand Headmen, Traffic, 1968)
I don't think you quite get it. The inquisitor asks the sinner if they ever heard anything they didn't understand. When they slip up and say yes self doubt enters the picture and anything goes. The inquisitor's claims stand without question, you would have to be deaf or a liar to not hear the BQP's, blah, blah, blah. Do BQP's float?
EDIT - Just watched the Python's in drag visiting Sartre, precious.
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Actually take REAL offense
I would say I think I understand. I bet about 10 years on something that, as it turned out, didn't work, although there was good reason to think it should: Cyclotron based fast neutron therapy for cancer. And actually, most people aren't as cold as might be attributed to them from appearances. I think I mentioned before, only about 2% are psychopaths, all the rest have some capacity to empathize with others. What we do see some of at times is the stereotype of grouchy old men. Between that, and the tendency for people to be rude and inconsiderate on internet forums, probably accounts for some perceptions. But people are often not so bad as they may be perceived to be by limited outward appearances. We tend to look for the worst in people, since survival may depend on avoiding particularly bad surprises.
I read many years ago about an isolated tribe first seeing (Polaroid?) photos of each other. They had trouble distinguishing between the photo and the real person. Or so the story goes.
But it doesn't matter whether or not that was true. We know deep down that attention is the other side of perception, and even more mysterious. The depth of our ignorance is itself unknown. So we ask questions over here under the streetlight, where the darkness is less.
All good fortune,
Chris
But it doesn't matter whether or not that was true. We know deep down that attention is the other side of perception, and even more mysterious. The depth of our ignorance is itself unknown. So we ask questions over here under the streetlight, where the darkness is less.
All good fortune,
Chris
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