Yes, I really, really would like to see some of the children posting here grow up and start acting like grown men rather than school yard bullies. Those who have been around here for a while might have noticed that I have stopped posting anything that has to do with design philosophy or goals. I only post about construction techniques and specific questions directed to me. I refuse to get into p|ssing contests with self-righteous narcissists who think that they are gods with the singular right path to audio nirvana.
Bob
Bob
I know I promised no more of topic posts but I would want to suggest this:
I would have no problem if some you guys would prefer to see my particular thread moved to Multi Way. Just ask a mod to do so. When I started the thread the obvious place for it seemed to be the full range forum. But if it deviates that much from the original intend of this side of the forum PM me and an appropriate moderator to have me moved.
Even though I use more than one driver, I'm in it for the enjoyment of the music above everything else. Just set things in motion. I still think I should be able to fit in here on this side of the forum from a design philosophy point of view but that isn't that important to me.
I would have no problem if some you guys would prefer to see my particular thread moved to Multi Way. Just ask a mod to do so. When I started the thread the obvious place for it seemed to be the full range forum. But if it deviates that much from the original intend of this side of the forum PM me and an appropriate moderator to have me moved.
Even though I use more than one driver, I'm in it for the enjoyment of the music above everything else. Just set things in motion. I still think I should be able to fit in here on this side of the forum from a design philosophy point of view but that isn't that important to me.
For my modest point of view as a guy with poor technical knowledge, people are old enough to make their own sort out !
You are, Wesayso, one of the main contributor here like some guys like Xrq971 ! Without you it will be sad here and further than that the concept of FR is not so far when we think about the designs here : unique horn or unique driver in an array ! It's very FR in the spirit !
I enjoy this place as I like also some posts like the one of Big'un member enjoying also an only one (mono) Full range driver
All of you guys, make this place rich and nice to read !
Sorry for the Off topic !
You are, Wesayso, one of the main contributor here like some guys like Xrq971 ! Without you it will be sad here and further than that the concept of FR is not so far when we think about the designs here : unique horn or unique driver in an array ! It's very FR in the spirit !
I enjoy this place as I like also some posts like the one of Big'un member enjoying also an only one (mono) Full range driver
All of you guys, make this place rich and nice to read !
Sorry for the Off topic !
No, just triggered by the post 2 posts above me. I know I'm a bit different from the main stream here content wise. Hence the suggestion.
Think discussions evolved here are natural based on substance in what have been said to guide OP a build, at post 1 a LS50 is requested beaten in sound quality by a full ranger and think that will take more than undocumented subjective preference. Of course OP will get some sound no matter what full range driver and enjoy the build because he build it himself, but will it be closer to real reference sound than LS50.
Suggestions as undocumented and uncorrected a FF85WK stock or treated driver killed 10F/8424 and the looking down on TC9FD plus arguments of data doesn't say it all is very understandable discussions if had it been from diy to diy discussions, that pro dealer with industry experience in a diy-thread argue with such words is unbelievable. If FF85WK is that good LS50 had probably been build upon it.
Suggestions as undocumented and uncorrected a FF85WK stock or treated driver killed 10F/8424 and the looking down on TC9FD plus arguments of data doesn't say it all is very understandable discussions if had it been from diy to diy discussions, that pro dealer with industry experience in a diy-thread argue with such words is unbelievable. If FF85WK is that good LS50 had probably been build upon it.
Last edited:
A DSP fixes the problem before it gets lost.
That is not the case. If a speaker has a resonance it will still be there, if the speaker is incapable of reproducing low level information it will still loose the low level information. This, like room reflection, is not DSP fixable.
dave
That is not a misquote. It is word-for-word out of the last paper of his i read. Simialr is also in his book and elsewhere (at least according to something ArnyK posted)
dave
You can call it that. I consider it countering your elevation of this driver to giant killer status. In my opinion it is not, and i encourage people to make their own evaluation. To the point of sending a pair out into the field (with the expectation of never seeing them again) so that they can do so.
The TC9 is what it is, maybe good value for the money. Depends on the compromises you can live with.
dave
Back to the poor old OP, whose original request is getting lost in this.
You mention wanting a 'bigger' sound than the LS50. It is designed as a mini-monitor so may not be capable of the sound you require or it may need more power from the amplifier.
As a start, rather than building an 'unknown' I'd suggest trying the speaker with a much larger amp than the Creek. Try to borrow a pro amp capable of a couple of hundred watts. You'd be surprised at how early some amplifiers start to sound congested and 'restrained' as they approach clipping and it easy to blame this on the loudspeaker.
Some pro audio dealers will allow you take speakers along to their showroom and dem with amplifiers - you should have a few nearby in Leeds.
You mention wanting a 'bigger' sound than the LS50. It is designed as a mini-monitor so may not be capable of the sound you require or it may need more power from the amplifier.
As a start, rather than building an 'unknown' I'd suggest trying the speaker with a much larger amp than the Creek. Try to borrow a pro amp capable of a couple of hundred watts. You'd be surprised at how early some amplifiers start to sound congested and 'restrained' as they approach clipping and it easy to blame this on the loudspeaker.
Some pro audio dealers will allow you take speakers along to their showroom and dem with amplifiers - you should have a few nearby in Leeds.
Good suggestion Colin.
I reread carefuly the first post, and the question was if Kef LS50 can be replaced with fullrange with much better "bigger" sound. In my humble opinion, most likely not with 4" fullrange. And those suggestions calling for whatever 4" fullrange has actually been talking about FAST, which is technically a 2-way.
You may find some audio nirvana 8" to 15" fullrange, in big enclosure, to satisfy. But the box will be big. See here...
Fullrange Loudspeakers. DIY Loudspeakers. Loudspeaker kits. Audio Nirvana, Lowther, Fostex. Vacuum Tube Amplifiers For Sale
Or you can abandon the idea of one fullrange, and in that case sky is the limit. I personaly like fullrange only used as midrange, with good tweeter on top. But I am not forcing anybody else to accept this as best approach. I once build Betsy wow with Fountek ribbon. Very good sounding (and measuring) speaker. I friend of mine I gave it to is still sooo happy about it, since he had just a computer speakers before.
Recently I was putting together 12" coax, and the result is very "big" sound, as the speaker is 2x2 ft, and is 98 dB/w/m.
Perhaps you just need to add a sub to your Kef and see if you like the result. My experience is everytime you relieve the midbass from low frequencies, it performs better. (its logical, membrane just moves much less) Adding a sub could make sound "bigger", and the process is quite straightforward. Much easier than fullrange...
Happy New Year!
ed
I reread carefuly the first post, and the question was if Kef LS50 can be replaced with fullrange with much better "bigger" sound. In my humble opinion, most likely not with 4" fullrange. And those suggestions calling for whatever 4" fullrange has actually been talking about FAST, which is technically a 2-way.
You may find some audio nirvana 8" to 15" fullrange, in big enclosure, to satisfy. But the box will be big. See here...
Fullrange Loudspeakers. DIY Loudspeakers. Loudspeaker kits. Audio Nirvana, Lowther, Fostex. Vacuum Tube Amplifiers For Sale
Or you can abandon the idea of one fullrange, and in that case sky is the limit. I personaly like fullrange only used as midrange, with good tweeter on top. But I am not forcing anybody else to accept this as best approach. I once build Betsy wow with Fountek ribbon. Very good sounding (and measuring) speaker. I friend of mine I gave it to is still sooo happy about it, since he had just a computer speakers before.
Recently I was putting together 12" coax, and the result is very "big" sound, as the speaker is 2x2 ft, and is 98 dB/w/m.
Perhaps you just need to add a sub to your Kef and see if you like the result. My experience is everytime you relieve the midbass from low frequencies, it performs better. (its logical, membrane just moves much less) Adding a sub could make sound "bigger", and the process is quite straightforward. Much easier than fullrange...
Happy New Year!
ed
Last edited:
Solid points. Although a small widebander with dedicated woofer support (I loath the FAST term, given that it implies that subwoofers are 'technology' while presumably no other drive units are) can certainly sound 'big' enough, depending on how you want to define that. High quality arrays too, naturally.
A large wideband driver -maybe. As you move up in size, the HF generally (although that's not an automatic given -depends exactly what you're comparing) tends to lag in performance terms relative to smaller units, so in general, IMO you're better off partnering a small widebander with decent woofers, rather than the inverse. The big AN drivers have a following, but they typically do need very large cabinets. Beyond that -a big (compared to the LS50) 2-way or 3-way is really needed, if you don't want to go down the alternate routes noted.
A large wideband driver -maybe. As you move up in size, the HF generally (although that's not an automatic given -depends exactly what you're comparing) tends to lag in performance terms relative to smaller units, so in general, IMO you're better off partnering a small widebander with decent woofers, rather than the inverse. The big AN drivers have a following, but they typically do need very large cabinets. Beyond that -a big (compared to the LS50) 2-way or 3-way is really needed, if you don't want to go down the alternate routes noted.
Hey Scott old pal, I thought we put that one to rest. You're just reading it wrong, that's all. Try reading it as [Full Range and Subwoofer] technology.
Glad you're back.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.