(there's no Z in the Thai alphabet, you should have ordered the Chinese edition)
Depending on who one refers to, the "headphone crowd" can be anything from perfectly sane to being really far out - after all, they are but one chapter in audio, and are thus succeptible to most of the usual follies of the game. For proof, just take a look at the range of headphone amps being proposed, from small and simple to more complicated than a really powerful power amp.
BTW, I believe Frank's insitance on paying close attention to the whole audio chain involved in any playback is spot on. While putting together my own system (well, at least one of them), whether for playback over loudspeakers or headphones, I was relatively often faced with a say better power amp being let down by a mediocre CD player, or vice versa. This caused me to go into the trouble of developing my own headphone amps, as I was unable to find any which could make my headphones sound as convincing as my loudspeakers and I knew they could do it given proper drive (Sennheiser HD 598). But it took a lot more than just throwing a cheap dual op amp at the job.
BTW, I believe Frank's insitance on paying close attention to the whole audio chain involved in any playback is spot on. While putting together my own system (well, at least one of them), whether for playback over loudspeakers or headphones, I was relatively often faced with a say better power amp being let down by a mediocre CD player, or vice versa. This caused me to go into the trouble of developing my own headphone amps, as I was unable to find any which could make my headphones sound as convincing as my loudspeakers and I knew they could do it given proper drive (Sennheiser HD 598). But it took a lot more than just throwing a cheap dual op amp at the job.
As for the Bybee devices, they seem to drop in every now and then. I still don't see the point. Most people here probably have an oscilloscope of some kind, so I don't see why doesn't someone take two shots, one "as is" depicting noise components coming in from the grid, and another after passing the same via the Bybee device. If it shows a change, as in having less noise after the Bybee, then it's doing something, not just sitting there. I haven't even seen it, let alone tried it, so I can't comment, but if I doubted it, what I said would be what I'd do. Sales talk notwithstanding.
As per discussion a while back, I now have the last of the eBay parts required to build a bridge amplifier circuit in order to try measuring BQPs and some other parts.
I have a fair bit on my plate so it will take me a few weeks to get around to it.
If I do get a repeatable result, should I publish ?
.
Dan.
I have a fair bit on my plate so it will take me a few weeks to get around to it.
If I do get a repeatable result, should I publish ?
.Dan.
Crazy idea: if the "conditioner" is meant to have an amp plugged into it, measure the amp's output plugged into the "conditioner" compared to plugged right into the mains. If it's one of your amps and there's a difference, that should be useful information to you for fixing the mistakes or insufficiencies in the power supply. If it's someone else's amp, you have some data you can use for competitive advantage.
Proof...
Point one, layouts don't haver earths on them or earth layout, what they have is a return current signal nominally 0V, similar to FAS42 you are very quick to pull designs to bits and make global statements that are unfounded.....
Read your later posts...
I have seen bad layout practice in al aspects of audio products, even top range consumer and hi-end especially where audiophile fashion grounding is followed rather than engineering based grounding for the control of return currents.... pick servos searching should be catered for in the design and more often than not is, a DSP doing marginally a few more calcs than normal isn't going to be a major tax on the power delivery system...
I have a strong impression that has built up over the years that unless you have mega bucks gear then the whole listening to music process is flawed....or if you don't follow the latest audiophile fashion for design and weirdo components, again the reproduction will be flawed.
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Why do audiophiles need a power conditioner with magical devices in it, get out more look at the world of electronics, say life/mission critical where failure or problems will cause more problems than a dropping of perceived SQ. They use conditioners etc. that WORK without magic, using good engineering practice and physics, using standard components available to everyone, not this joke BS stuff about magical components and top secret materials...
We had an exchange with Bonsai about the influence of the feedback impedance on the overall bandwidth of an amplifier due to the pole of the feedback path (impedance VS parasitic capacitance).
It seems he had not understood (or read) at all my purpose.
Of course, to figure out this question, you have to keep the level of feedback equal (same closed loop gain), while you are changing the two side of the bridge.
It was so basic and obvious that i omitted this precision
So obvious, because the serial resistance of the feedback path is not the one with the main influence on impedance, i could not imagine some can change only the one side of the bridge, playing with the closed loop gain in the same time.
Now, for the ones, like "The fly", who do not understand or are just looking for trouble, re-read my previous message on this subject with this in mind, you will learn something. (The others, with some experience, knew-it yet).
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/loun...torch-preamplifier-part-ii-6.html#post4301513
It is like the second degree. It is obvious, when you have respect for your friends, hearing something stupid from his mouth that he is joking. People who do not feel second degree are just people full of contempt.
It is very strange, on this forum, the way some people tend to take others for stupid or beginners. A minimal of respect would change the atmosphere. And a minimal courtesy too.
It seems he had not understood (or read) at all my purpose.
Of course, to figure out this question, you have to keep the level of feedback equal (same closed loop gain), while you are changing the two side of the bridge.
It was so basic and obvious that i omitted this precision
So obvious, because the serial resistance of the feedback path is not the one with the main influence on impedance, i could not imagine some can change only the one side of the bridge, playing with the closed loop gain in the same time.
Now, for the ones, like "The fly", who do not understand or are just looking for trouble, re-read my previous message on this subject with this in mind, you will learn something. (The others, with some experience, knew-it yet).
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/loun...torch-preamplifier-part-ii-6.html#post4301513
It is like the second degree. It is obvious, when you have respect for your friends, hearing something stupid from his mouth that he is joking. People who do not feel second degree are just people full of contempt.
It is very strange, on this forum, the way some people tend to take others for stupid or beginners. A minimal of respect would change the atmosphere. And a minimal courtesy too.
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I can't speak for others, but my filter has no magic or voodo in it or about it, it contains PC boards with capacitors and inductors, plus a small indication LED circuit just to tell you it's operational and the protection fuse is intact. Some inside wiring thrown in. That's it.
On the other hand, it does have its own guieting curve, which you can verify for yourself, and it does have a minimum guaranteed specification sheet, and prior to delivery each and every one is measured. It has to meet its specs, or it doesn't leave the office. Those specs are guaranteed for as long as the device is guaranteed, which is 5 years. Its average life expectancy is 20 years at least. Units sold in the late 70ies are still opearional, every now and then one comes back with a dearly departed capacitor (usually), or a customer wants them all replaced, or some such. Prices vary, but worst case for a complete resrehment works out at just under $50.
Like I said, no magic, no voodoo, no wonders, just less noise from the mains. That's all it's supposed to do.
It is one of the problems, here. If you you base only your thoughts on books or common practices, you will never improve anything.You are such a scientist...
When somebody like Richard says he can feel a difference between two digital sources (with the same DAC ?), a minimal respect would be to take this for granted, and try to find the right explanation.
Yes, I noticed a difference in my CD player when i charged the chariot with lead. This contradict the "perfect bit accuracy". On my side, i believe that, reducing the vibrations, it reduces the number of errors to be corrected, adjustments of the position of the laser head, variations of the power of the laser beam and had an influence on the power consumption, IE, noises on the analog power rails.
Yes, it would have been better if I worked on power sources, but it was more complicated and time consuming.
This said, it was, may-be, something else that i don't know, as i had not made any bit by bit comparison.
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Wrong quote...regarding power conditioners, the guilty parties my comment was aimed at should be quite apparent from some previous posts the mention of a name I shall not repeat, but it has become synonymous with magical components that measure like a low ohmic resistor but aren't really because they involve compressed fairy dust....
I got that, Marce, all I was trying was to point out that not everybody who's in that field is a Black Magic Master or a voodoo priest, some of us normal people who promise only what they can guarantee and prove. Better yet, you can check it out for yourself with very tangible measurements.
BTW, I do NOT use communist like euphemisms like "power conditioner", I call it what it is, a power line FILTER. The conditioning part, where they tickle the current so it feels better and flows easier, I leave to those more knowledgable than me. Although, some, like say PS Audio, should by rights call it a conditioner, as they first rectify the AC into DC, and then recreate it as AC, with your choice of the Hz involved. I think such changing the state of the incoming power qualifies for a conditioner.
I agree that the myth and magic surrouning power cleaning is second only to the myth and mistique of cables. But here, as everywhere, there are still people who do not wish to trade their good bane for a few bucks. Pitifully few, but still ...
BTW, I do NOT use communist like euphemisms like "power conditioner", I call it what it is, a power line FILTER. The conditioning part, where they tickle the current so it feels better and flows easier, I leave to those more knowledgable than me.
Although, some, like say PS Audio, should by rights call it a conditioner, as they first rectify the AC into DC, and then recreate it as AC, with your choice of the Hz involved. I think such changing the state of the incoming power qualifies for a conditioner.I agree that the myth and magic surrouning power cleaning is second only to the myth and mistique of cables. But here, as everywhere, there are still people who do not wish to trade their good bane for a few bucks. Pitifully few, but still ...
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I don't know, likely will have great difficulty parting from my speaker cables with directional Inline Wave Stabilizers (with Magnetic Conduction Technology).
At 10 grand per 6ft pair, undoubtedly a Stealth flight apart from a 3D Holographic power conditioner.
But Hey, it just occured to me that I can use both (and pay a contribution for 2 Bentleys)
At 10 grand per 6ft pair, undoubtedly a Stealth flight apart from a 3D Holographic power conditioner.
But Hey, it just occured to me that I can use both (and pay a contribution for 2 Bentleys)
Ahhh, the straw man! Nothing like the classics.
Let me know when you're done investigating and explaining alien abductions and anal probes, presented with exactly as much evidence as the assertions you detailed, and probably with more sincerity in some cases.
Actually it's only on some of the disks, Heragog appears as well as Klaus Kingski.
First, i don't allow-you to doubt of my "sincerity" and this impolite insinuation is unworthy of someone who holds the position of moderator. You are, on my point of view, one of the responsible of the unfriendly and aggressive ambiance here. With abuse of position. When claiming moderator, one must be exemplary.
On my side, i had not attacked you in any way.
Second, please, tell-me what are the "alien" assertions of the "straw man" you are talking of ?
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Extraordinary claims offered without evidence. Re-asserting claims more vociferously, but continuing to refuse to either provide evidence, does not make the claims any truer. Ranting about non-existent people who "base only (their) thoughts on books or common practices" is the classic strawman tactic.
Try doing real experiments and getting solid evidence. That's what separates serious people from loons, dilettantes, and hucksters.
Try doing real experiments and getting solid evidence. That's what separates serious people from loons, dilettantes, and hucksters.
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