Very Interesting Thread...
I have been lurking on this thread for a while, due to not being able to post, ( problems with Apple's Airport Software Base Station and newreply.php!), and I thought I might offer some of my own experiences.
I have never skinned caps, but in some of my earlier commecial SS amps I have had great success in using Blu-Tack ( a sticky putty used to hold up posters) applied to electrolytics, it seemed to clear up some high end hash that I had been hearing previously.
However this only works on some amps, with my current Arcam Alpha 10 set up it seems to make no difference whatsoever, so circuit layout and general construction must play a part.
I am currently building some gainclone type amps purely for experimentation, and as I have spare components I will build both skinned and non skinned versions for comparison. I know these are not ideal test subjects, due to the low component count there will be only two 1000uf capacitors in the circuit, but it may also make any differences more audible, I don't know, but stay tuned...
I have been lurking on this thread for a while, due to not being able to post, ( problems with Apple's Airport Software Base Station and newreply.php!), and I thought I might offer some of my own experiences.
I have never skinned caps, but in some of my earlier commecial SS amps I have had great success in using Blu-Tack ( a sticky putty used to hold up posters) applied to electrolytics, it seemed to clear up some high end hash that I had been hearing previously.
However this only works on some amps, with my current Arcam Alpha 10 set up it seems to make no difference whatsoever, so circuit layout and general construction must play a part.
I am currently building some gainclone type amps purely for experimentation, and as I have spare components I will build both skinned and non skinned versions for comparison. I know these are not ideal test subjects, due to the low component count there will be only two 1000uf capacitors in the circuit, but it may also make any differences more audible, I don't know, but stay tuned...
SKINNING CAPS
Welcome aboard,
The "blue tack" would have to do more with damping out residual mechanical resonance,I reckon?
Skinning,peeling away the plastic package sitting around most electrolytics is another ball park entirely.(For what I understand of it, I should hasten to add.)
For what I gather so far we haven't as yet established any scientific explanation for the sonic results on this one.
Very generous of you to give it a try!
Welcome aboard,
The "blue tack" would have to do more with damping out residual mechanical resonance,I reckon?
Skinning,peeling away the plastic package sitting around most electrolytics is another ball park entirely.(For what I understand of it, I should hasten to add.)
For what I gather so far we haven't as yet established any scientific explanation for the sonic results on this one.
Very generous of you to give it a try!
>fdegrove
Yup, probably, but as we are not really sure what we are dealing with, who knows???
>jcarr
Now you mention it, I remember reading that somewhere, but my origional plan was to compare inverting and non inverting variants, so why not throw in skinning, ( I got a load of aluminum electros cheap from Maplin in a discontinued sale, so I'm game for this as well!).
Yup, probably, but as we are not really sure what we are dealing with, who knows???
>jcarr
Now you mention it, I remember reading that somewhere, but my origional plan was to compare inverting and non inverting variants, so why not throw in skinning, ( I got a load of aluminum electros cheap from Maplin in a discontinued sale, so I'm game for this as well!).
Hello,
Today i did remove some plastic covers from capacitors in both signal and power supply of a little tube amplifier. All of them don't make any physical contact with the chassis. Impressions after a day of lisening. Less electronics, more music, want to turn up the volume every time. So i think there is less subjective distorsion. Try it, it is free, but no one will recognize those expensive Black Gates. ED
Today i did remove some plastic covers from capacitors in both signal and power supply of a little tube amplifier. All of them don't make any physical contact with the chassis. Impressions after a day of lisening. Less electronics, more music, want to turn up the volume every time. So i think there is less subjective distorsion. Try it, it is free, but no one will recognize those expensive Black Gates. ED
Taking the Nude Cap idea to a new level.
<a href="http://home.planet.nl/~dht_rob/homeprojectselna1.htm"><img src="http://home.planet.nl/~dht_rob/images/afbeeldingen/elnahout02.JPG">
"Here we have the original Elna, Elna without its plastic insulation and the new wooden enclosure."</a>
Regards
James
<a href="http://home.planet.nl/~dht_rob/homeprojectselna1.htm"><img src="http://home.planet.nl/~dht_rob/images/afbeeldingen/elnahout02.JPG">
"Here we have the original Elna, Elna without its plastic insulation and the new wooden enclosure."</a>
Regards
James
Back in the early 1980s, Nippon Chemicon (IIRC) had some plastic-case electrolytics that sounded quite nice - at least by the standards of the day. NEC (IIRC) also had some glass-encapsulated tantalum capacitors that were considerably better-sounding than other tantalum caps. These were, however, removed from the marketplace due to accelerated leakage and other durability issues.
Also, I feel that the reasons why non-conductive case capacitors sound good and the reasons why removing the plastic covers from aluminum-can electrolytics sound good are completely different.
Regards, jonathan carr
Also, I feel that the reasons why non-conductive case capacitors sound good and the reasons why removing the plastic covers from aluminum-can electrolytics sound good are completely different.
Regards, jonathan carr
jcarr said:
Jonathon, thanks for reminding me of plastic encapsulated electrolytics - I had forgotten all about them, and at the time I did not critique them sonically.
Never heard of glass encapsulation tantalums - I expect that they would sound unusually good - pity about the reliability issues - maybe this is solvable nowadays.
I agree that capacitor cans material and plastic labels are different issues.
I think that the reason for no non-aluminium cans is to do with reactions with the electrolyte, and non reactive material (plastic, glass ok, wood ?) are ok in this respect.
I find interactive field effects by proximity of materials affecting sonics.
In the case of the plastic shrink wrapping of electrolytics, I reckon from 10 years ago 'caps skinning' experience, that the sonic changes are due to removal of firstly the tension of the plastic, and when the plastic is removed, another sonic change.
Cutting the plastic sleeve removes tension and alters microphonics, and removal of the plastic sleeve gives another sonics change ime.
Eric.
Electrolytic caps usually have some DC leakage on the case. If you remove the plastic then you can short out various things if you touch the naked electrolytic cap to something conductive or another cap. So, when experimenting with naked caps you need to be careful or you can fry something. The fact that caps sound different when naked is a fact you can hear. Whether you like the effect....well, that is another story.
The main reason for the plastic is insulation. Remove that and you increase the risk if damaging the equipment through shorts.
A secondary reason is to damp mechanical resonances. Encourage those and the sound may change, but not for the better.
As we often say, it is easy to make things sound different. It is hard to make competently-engineered items sound better.
A secondary reason is to damp mechanical resonances. Encourage those and the sound may change, but not for the better.
As we often say, it is easy to make things sound different. It is hard to make competently-engineered items sound better.
There are many ways to damp a capacitor: .....constrained layer damping material, silk, cotton, wood, cardboard, Marigo dots, etc. Also there are WA Quantum chips......these make a serious improvement. There are no "perfectly engineered products that have no sonic signature". Everything sounds different. Every brand and type of cap has a sonic signature. The "game" is to find the best parts and use them in the best way to create a sonic masterpiece (incredible information retrieval with incredible musicality....ie..super low audible noise and distortion). Since most things that can be heard cannot be measured.....well, it makes for a grand task that is never over.
Was that a competition entry for the thread post which pushes the most 'audiophile' buttons while using the least words?
Taking the last point: the truth is that many things can be measured but not heard, but everything which can genuinely be heard can be measured. For a small minority of such things it may be that we haven't yet worked out exactly how to measure it.
Unusual sensitivity to component details is a sign of poor circuit design. This is most likely to be found in very cheap, very expensive or very DIY items.
Taking the last point: the truth is that many things can be measured but not heard, but everything which can genuinely be heard can be measured. For a small minority of such things it may be that we haven't yet worked out exactly how to measure it.
Unusual sensitivity to component details is a sign of poor circuit design. This is most likely to be found in very cheap, very expensive or very DIY items.
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