As someone who has lived in 3 different EU countries (presently in France) and worked in 2 others there are lot of assumptions bandied about on this thread.
The EU is sadly a corrupt and ineffective joke. The greedy and arrogant politicians and civil servants in Brussels make laws that are supposed to apply to all EU States - in reality each country does what it damn well likes.
The UK and the Netherlands will really hammer you with charges and very often impose illegal fees and tariffs. When I lived in Spain I imported a lot from the USA/Taiwan and China/Hong Kong -from Hong Kong a $300 h/amp, from the USA a $400 Japanese MC cartridge - no charges but had to pay for importing some Z foil rs. but nothing like the horrendous charges levied in the UK/Netherlands.
Living in France for over 5 years and importing plenty so far I have been charged nothing. I received a package from Partsconnexion Canada)today value $85 - no charges and a natural health supplement from California @ $60 - no charges.
I have a friend who is Belgian and he used to work for the European Commission. He runs a small computer sales and repair business and imports quite a lot of stuff from the far East. He keeps in touch with his old workmates so knows exactly what charges should be levied. In fact the only mandatory charge is TVA relevant to the country of import, all the rest are decided by the individual country.
Bank Charges - the Germans/Dutch and I think the Danes abide by the EU directive that an IBAN transfer should attract no charges - try telling that to the French/Spanish/Italian banks. Take a look at ebay.de, many Germans refuse to pay the extortionate fees demanded by Paypal - IBAN transfer only.
One poster said he tries to buy locally - the problem is the greedy importers and distributers in Europe as a whole. I got an American friend to buy a Hakka solder station for me @ $99 and post it on to me in Spain, it attracted no charges, In Spain the same solder station was $250. The difference in price cannot be the import charges, just greed pure and simple.
The EU is sadly a corrupt and ineffective joke. The greedy and arrogant politicians and civil servants in Brussels make laws that are supposed to apply to all EU States - in reality each country does what it damn well likes.
The UK and the Netherlands will really hammer you with charges and very often impose illegal fees and tariffs. When I lived in Spain I imported a lot from the USA/Taiwan and China/Hong Kong -from Hong Kong a $300 h/amp, from the USA a $400 Japanese MC cartridge - no charges but had to pay for importing some Z foil rs. but nothing like the horrendous charges levied in the UK/Netherlands.
Living in France for over 5 years and importing plenty so far I have been charged nothing. I received a package from Partsconnexion Canada)today value $85 - no charges and a natural health supplement from California @ $60 - no charges.
I have a friend who is Belgian and he used to work for the European Commission. He runs a small computer sales and repair business and imports quite a lot of stuff from the far East. He keeps in touch with his old workmates so knows exactly what charges should be levied. In fact the only mandatory charge is TVA relevant to the country of import, all the rest are decided by the individual country.
Bank Charges - the Germans/Dutch and I think the Danes abide by the EU directive that an IBAN transfer should attract no charges - try telling that to the French/Spanish/Italian banks. Take a look at ebay.de, many Germans refuse to pay the extortionate fees demanded by Paypal - IBAN transfer only.
One poster said he tries to buy locally - the problem is the greedy importers and distributers in Europe as a whole. I got an American friend to buy a Hakka solder station for me @ $99 and post it on to me in Spain, it attracted no charges, In Spain the same solder station was $250. The difference in price cannot be the import charges, just greed pure and simple.
It's called market price - not greed.
I Denmark something is very cheap and something is very expensive. TV and PC/Tablet equipment is so cheap in Denmark that it's not worth looking abroad.
Toroids and aluminiums cases are quite expensive in Denmark, but as a whole I don't think items are more expensive that they should be. When I buy from other countries its because its not available i my country or the pricedifference is to big to ignore.
I Denmark something is very cheap and something is very expensive. TV and PC/Tablet equipment is so cheap in Denmark that it's not worth looking abroad.
Toroids and aluminiums cases are quite expensive in Denmark, but as a whole I don't think items are more expensive that they should be. When I buy from other countries its because its not available i my country or the pricedifference is to big to ignore.
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No Kjeldsen,
it's not the 'market price' it's what the punter will stand for before they stop buying or 'how much can I screw them for'.
Like I said Germans and Americans demand value for money, so that's what they get.
Even in Europe there are huge differences in prices for the same item. I should be building my own home soon and I will buy wherever the price is cheapest. there are some items I can buy in Spain that are 3 x the price in France and the UK.
So much stuff in made in China and the European importers ramp up the prices in their own countries - a reasonable profit is fine but greed is'nt - so when I decided to buy an oxymeter (keeping tabs on my vital signs) direct from China I paid €8 including livraison or I could have bought the same thing from a greedy importer in France or the UK for €23-28 - it's a no brainer.
Denmark is a hugely expensive country with significant financial problems looming in the near future and you may well have a good salary so you can afford to pay the inflated Danish prices but what of those Danes who can't?
it's not the 'market price' it's what the punter will stand for before they stop buying or 'how much can I screw them for'.
Like I said Germans and Americans demand value for money, so that's what they get.
Even in Europe there are huge differences in prices for the same item. I should be building my own home soon and I will buy wherever the price is cheapest. there are some items I can buy in Spain that are 3 x the price in France and the UK.
So much stuff in made in China and the European importers ramp up the prices in their own countries - a reasonable profit is fine but greed is'nt - so when I decided to buy an oxymeter (keeping tabs on my vital signs) direct from China I paid €8 including livraison or I could have bought the same thing from a greedy importer in France or the UK for €23-28 - it's a no brainer.
Denmark is a hugely expensive country with significant financial problems looming in the near future and you may well have a good salary so you can afford to pay the inflated Danish prices but what of those Danes who can't?
It's still market price = how much can I charge. On many products there is no transparent market price, and therefore you will see many sorts of prices (also in China)
You pay 8€ but you have add VAT and Tax. In Denmark the 8€ will end up in 19€. Then we have better warranty i DK compared to china, so the reselleer should also add a provision for that. You don't charge your own time searching for the item, collect the item at store the item. You local reseller will have to charge all this.
I do the same as you do, bacause its my hobby I don't charge my self. But for any hour I spend finding cheap stuff in China I could have earned much more delivering newspapers.
32" flatscreen TV Phillips Brand new latest DVB-T2 tuner USB recording Price 200€ incl freight. Is that expensive?
You pay 8€ but you have add VAT and Tax. In Denmark the 8€ will end up in 19€. Then we have better warranty i DK compared to china, so the reselleer should also add a provision for that. You don't charge your own time searching for the item, collect the item at store the item. You local reseller will have to charge all this.
I do the same as you do, bacause its my hobby I don't charge my self. But for any hour I spend finding cheap stuff in China I could have earned much more delivering newspapers.
32" flatscreen TV Phillips Brand new latest DVB-T2 tuner USB recording Price 200€ incl freight. Is that expensive?
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I have bought from many items from overseas (mainly China) via Ebay but also from:-
Connexelectronics Connexelectronic
Hifimediy HiFimeDIY Store
The only 2 times I have paid duty was from the USA and on items more than £150
I have never asked for the items to be marked as anything other than what they were.
Connexelectronics Connexelectronic
Hifimediy HiFimeDIY Store
The only 2 times I have paid duty was from the USA and on items more than £150
I have never asked for the items to be marked as anything other than what they were.
So are the wages for the same job, or the rent for the same flat.
So why you don't open your own import business, be a little less greedy and get rich fast? Must be a no brainer too, isn't it?
in europe, each country is like a state compared to US or china market size. i rarely see big multi-national coorperations (except ikea) but local monopoly that dominate in each country and supply the small market. generally big companies with a big market are more efficient compared to several small companies with several small markets. The situation in europe is: little competition, and business/market is small so efficiency low -> cost high.
I think if there is no EU, the situation will be even worse.
I think if there is no EU, the situation will be even worse.
How true.
The standard Dutch customs trick is to add the tax percentage in Euros on a US dollar amount.
Number of years ago, the $ to € exchange rate peaked at 1,50
Meant Dutch customs handed me a 46% surcharge bill
(10% import tax for US goods +21% sales tax, multiplied by the 1,50)
And they can be even more pleasant :
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/52459-smaller-leach-amp-v1-5.html#post637602
I can buy almost anything here, right around the corner or order it from a EU source.
Europe is not as mail-order minded as the US (yet), which is why for some of us it is nothing out of the ordinary to get in the car or on a bus and drive over to get it ourselves.
I went to the UK to buy a Belfast sink, long before they became trendy in Europe, for a fraction of the going rate here.
For a $50 bidet, I drove over to a bricolage in France, at a time when the cheapest one in NL cost 10 times that much.
From the mid 1980s, I have driven over to Germany to buy audio parts at Bürklin in Düsseldorf and Conrad.
I visit Lille several times a year to buy food items, done so for 30+ years, as e.g. Knorr broth tablets which are strictly manufactured for the French market.
Thanks to the internet, such items can be ordered online nowadays :
BOUILLON AUX HERBES ET HUILE D'OLIVE KNORR - TROVASHOP.COM
And even in the UK : https://www.frenchclick.co.uk/p-355-knorr-bouillon-herbes-huile-olive-puget-cubes-x15-150g.aspx
When in Lille, I usually drive over to Ronchin, so visit the Selectronic store.
Couple of years ago, I bought a retractable swimming pool cover (14m long x 7m wide) direct from the manufacturer in Prague, through the phone.
Saved something in the order or €10k, minimum.
(merely had to grease a local guy, who used to sell swimming pool covers, as the company in the Czech republic only deals with distributors, well worth the €500 cash. Sales tax, wtf is sales tax ?)
You like to buy a 200ft yacht in Hong Kong ?
I can tell you the exact transport cost to Europe in 15 minutes, a transport pick-up and arrival date in an hour.
(if I fancy it, it will cost me 1/4th to 1/5th of your amount to get it across)
Try ask a North American member what he can buy/order in the US.
If it's not US made, ask what it costs
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Well as a US member who every so often imports stuff, there really are a few rules.
FedEx and UPS used to charge custom brokers fees that were often more than the total shipment value, they did get into a bit of bother on that and now only do it when the value is there.
Using the postal service they only charge for what is shown on the declared value.
Now you certainly can ask for a shipper to declare a fraudulent value, as this is a minor crime in most cases the penalties are rarely enforced. The big IF is that you will eventually get caught and then they might just be very picky about everything you ship or receive after that.
(Had a cousin tick of the immigration folks, so now he gets strip searched every trip.)
Now if you tend to dismiss customs, here they are a bit worried about bad guys shipping in nasty items. There are ways to qualify as a trusted importer and avoid much hassle, so you don't want to do anything that will ruin that.
Now every so often I will ship an actual sample or even say a birthday gift that does avoid most of the hassle.
To me the issue is really one of the difference between avoiding taxes and evading taxes. There are things you can do legally to avoid paying taxes, such as getting partial shipments that are below the tax threshold. Evading taxes means you are doing things that you know are illegal to pay less.
Now yes every so often the officials are incompetent or corrupt. My last round with this was on a state required insurance policy. I give them the numbers they needed to calculate the policy cost. One of the state workers (A.K.A. the jerk) decides to show me he is in charge and raises my rates from $17,000 to $85,000! I call the office of the state's Attorney General (As high as you can go.) Mention this to a coworker of the jerk, that I contacted the office of the Attorney General and within a few days not only did my overcharge get removed, but they found a lower and more applicable rate.
You can't do that if you don't have a good reputation. Been U.S. tax audited three times. Never had to pay anything from the audits. Had an even more serious issue that my clean reputation versus the other guys horrible history saved lots and lots of trouble.
FedEx and UPS used to charge custom brokers fees that were often more than the total shipment value, they did get into a bit of bother on that and now only do it when the value is there.
Using the postal service they only charge for what is shown on the declared value.
Now you certainly can ask for a shipper to declare a fraudulent value, as this is a minor crime in most cases the penalties are rarely enforced. The big IF is that you will eventually get caught and then they might just be very picky about everything you ship or receive after that.
(Had a cousin tick of the immigration folks, so now he gets strip searched every trip.)
Now if you tend to dismiss customs, here they are a bit worried about bad guys shipping in nasty items. There are ways to qualify as a trusted importer and avoid much hassle, so you don't want to do anything that will ruin that.
Now every so often I will ship an actual sample or even say a birthday gift that does avoid most of the hassle.
To me the issue is really one of the difference between avoiding taxes and evading taxes. There are things you can do legally to avoid paying taxes, such as getting partial shipments that are below the tax threshold. Evading taxes means you are doing things that you know are illegal to pay less.
Now yes every so often the officials are incompetent or corrupt. My last round with this was on a state required insurance policy. I give them the numbers they needed to calculate the policy cost. One of the state workers (A.K.A. the jerk) decides to show me he is in charge and raises my rates from $17,000 to $85,000! I call the office of the state's Attorney General (As high as you can go.) Mention this to a coworker of the jerk, that I contacted the office of the Attorney General and within a few days not only did my overcharge get removed, but they found a lower and more applicable rate.
You can't do that if you don't have a good reputation. Been U.S. tax audited three times. Never had to pay anything from the audits. Had an even more serious issue that my clean reputation versus the other guys horrible history saved lots and lots of trouble.
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We order, but very carefull.
Since FedEx and others, are using TollPost when the package gets here, we have to be VERY carefull.
I never order anything I think might end up in their hands.
If I order something that costs more than $50 including freight, lets say $55, Tollpost will charge me closer to $150 even tho the VAT is only $12.
The rest is 3 or 4 fees with ******** names.
I bet the owner of Tollpost is best pals with some politician. Cause they dont give a ****. There are no laws regulating the fees, so they can pretty much charge you what ever they want. And you have to pay. If you dont, the $140 will be $300 pretty fast, then $500. Thats when they start to shave your paychecks.
Taxes, restrictions, housing prises etc.. its all out of control.
Since FedEx and others, are using TollPost when the package gets here, we have to be VERY carefull.
I never order anything I think might end up in their hands.
If I order something that costs more than $50 including freight, lets say $55, Tollpost will charge me closer to $150 even tho the VAT is only $12.
The rest is 3 or 4 fees with ******** names.
I bet the owner of Tollpost is best pals with some politician. Cause they dont give a ****. There are no laws regulating the fees, so they can pretty much charge you what ever they want. And you have to pay. If you dont, the $140 will be $300 pretty fast, then $500. Thats when they start to shave your paychecks.
Taxes, restrictions, housing prises etc.. its all out of control.
Quite a few times.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/129604-lookie-lookie-ono-oh-yes-6.html#post1650725
(those were first offered for $15, then THL halved the price, the moment I made my move. 260VA R-core transformers, at the $/€ exchange rate then, I believe the net price I paid was less than €7 each)
They multiplied by 1.50? I seriously doubt that and it would be a reason for an appeal anyway. However, it makes no difference at which point the currency conversion takes place:
$100 + 10 % + 21 % = $133.10 / 1.50 = €88.73
$100 / 1.50 = €66.67 + 10 % + 21 % = €88.74
(1 Cent roundup difference here though)
Are you sure that you just didn't misread the customs statement? I just wonder, because '+31 %' is definitely wrong, regardless if in $ or €. Customs duties are taxed as well, thus the calculation is '+10 % +21%'.
Have you even tried? You don't need a lawyer for a simple appeal. Last time I checked, the Netherlands still were a member of the EU,
so I trust they have the same customs regime like every other EU member state.- Status
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