how much lower do you think vinyl is from mic to power amp?
How many non-DS 24 bit converters are out there tho? Once in deltasigma its all noise shaping and other things you appear to not like.
Isn't domestic CD +8dBu for Full scale. Or do you mean like Interfacing Analogue & Digital Equipment where 0dBFS=+20dBu? If the article is correct has taught me a few things.
Simon,
Most of the time I wouldn't expect that many open mics used at one time. But what of all the extra tracks added, extra vocals and overdubs, add some percussion tracks, take the DI bass lines and add some mic'd cabinet to add some warmth to that di sound and on and on. In the end you could easily have 32 tracks of different sounds that you then have to mix through the mix bus. Does all the noise from individual tracks add or is it just the relative level?
Christophe would be the one to answer this question
Most of the time I wouldn't expect that many open mics used at one time. But what of all the extra tracks added, extra vocals and overdubs, add some percussion tracks, take the DI bass lines and add some mic'd cabinet to add some warmth to that di sound and on and on. In the end you could easily have 32 tracks of different sounds that you then have to mix through the mix bus. Does all the noise from individual tracks add or is it just the relative level?
Christophe would be the one to answer this question
Let say ~24 in the same time in big studios and 'near live' recordings ?
I believe i should fix a typical park of >50 various mikes for an average studio ?
(Kindhornman is absolutly right with re-recordings.)
Many sound engeneer used to bring at least one of their own mikes. Mines were an exceptional modified Neuman U67 (tube, used for voices), a very old Schoeps CM 51/9 (fantastic on acoustic guitars) , two AKG D 202 (that i used on electric guitar amps), and a set of SENNHEISER MD 441 that i loved to use on drums.
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Bingo!
If you visit a busy recording studio note that usually one or at most a few input modules show signs of wear. The folks who service them may have half a dozen spare faders. (Churches that do live choirs may go to 40 actual inputs, but only because they cannot repatch.)
Once you have laid down the tracks in the analog days you needed many inputs for the mixdown. Many analog studios used to do sub mix downs to conserve available tracks. In the digital realm you want the control surface to address how you mix, but there is no longer a real need for multi-multichannel mixers.
So the high end recording studio will have all of the mics, funny preamps, signal processors etc. but not need the show boat console. (There actually was a console called the Show Boat!)
So the issue becomes the loss of the rooms not the gear. Now it turns out there are lots of new or semi-private studios being built in the middle of nowhere, due to low cost real estate.
There still are advertising based studios in cities, as they can be much smaller, have higher turn and charge way more than a straight music studio.
In a few markets there are film and TV studios. Now if you want to record concert hall sound, many concert halls now have the equipment and since many are charitable organizations, they really don't have a budget limit on the gear.
Now having followed the recording studio market for a while, and been to the close-up bankruptcy auctions, the studio that lasts is a rarity confined to a few markets.
A fun business to some, but rarely long term profitable.
Then to add misery is that much consumer gear today is actually way better than the pro gear used to be.
Anyone here ever heard a Fairchild reverb? (Anyone care to guess what the internal circuitry was?)
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Spring reverb go on . Fairchild limiters are more prized . Far from being what one might call uncolored devices.
Good question -- I dropped LP decades ago because the distortion was so high and many other reasons. The last analog source I had was via expensive analog recorders and multi-track analog recorders... which produced sound Much better than I was able to get off a LP.
The aspect of distortion going down with level is what I am referring to against distortion rising as signal level goes down is the #1 cause for the dislike of digital.... with or without dither.
+20 or +24dB is the professional/studio level I am referring to using.
TH-RNMarsh
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The only dynamic range that matters, is that of the replay system being able to output the peaks of the recording correctly, while still reproducing the low level detail with minimal extra noise or distortion. The vast majority of systems fail to do this, to some degree, which is why they always sound like "hifi" systems rather than being convincing - being exposed to a system working correctly, and understanding what's going on, makes one aware of this important differentiation. Most "professional" sound fails pretty badly - they can do the fff, but it all starts to fall apart as they attempt to move towards ppp.
at least 6 just for the drum set. More if it has cow bells and other things/drums. One over head omni could be used for that drum set.... But I've tried that.... makes a better fill-mic.
THx-RNMarsh
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Wrong, Richard - this is just silly that you're attempting to to spread this nonsense ...
It is a minimum. Lets count together.
Kick drum 1
Charleston 1
Snare drum 1 or 2 (if you want to emphasis the snare).
tom-toms 3 - 5 (depending of the drum kit).
Cymbals 2 - 4 (depending of the drum kit)
This make 8 -> 13
Well, i used when it was possible a stereo couple, in large studios, to record drum kits from 5m distance. (Adding little levels from close mikes just to add some attacks). It was my best miking.
Drums are very difficult to record nicely, because all the interferences between all those mikes that we cannot isolate. There, we begin to use noise gates etc...
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The Glyn Johns method used 4. I watched a program about 6 months ago where Don Henly was grumbling about the drums being too quiet with this method. Glyn had recently been recording John Bonham so told him to hit the drums harder!
Ah the good old days. When everything sounded better...honest
Its just my opinion based on the distortion I and others hear and measure. So, for myself, it isnt silly.
The best sound I have ever heard is directly from master recordings on analog tape played back in my home playback system..... nothing between myself and the master recording.
However, the uncompressed 24/96K files downloaded and played back on 24bit/96K system is about as good IIRC --- I should do a comparison from my master analog recorder (on loan) and a good digital recording ADC ..... maybe the digital would sound better..... either way... so much better than playing an LP. And playing a CD.
So now I have dropped CD for a better format. Not that the digital bits is the only factor.... like I said before ---> removing the processing of LP or CD disc's and replay of them cuts down on a lot of the total system distortion.
THx-RNMarsh
The best sound I have ever heard is directly from master recordings on analog tape played back in my home playback system..... nothing between myself and the master recording.
However, the uncompressed 24/96K files downloaded and played back on 24bit/96K system is about as good IIRC --- I should do a comparison from my master analog recorder (on loan) and a good digital recording ADC ..... maybe the digital would sound better..... either way... so much better than playing an LP. And playing a CD.
So now I have dropped CD for a better format. Not that the digital bits is the only factor.... like I said before ---> removing the processing of LP or CD disc's and replay of them cuts down on a lot of the total system distortion.
THx-RNMarsh
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The distortion you're hearing is faulty playback of the recording. The latter is intrinsically fine, there's nothing wrong with the music data - just the mechanism for retrieving and outputting that information needs to be improved, fine tuned, debugged.
I know what you're hearing ... I've listened to my CDs on many expensive systems, of others, and wondered, how could that setup get it so wrong! Yes, total system distortion is the answer, but the format in itself is not a problem - just the right mechanism to insert that music data into the replay chain without causing additional problems, is the answer.
I know what you're hearing ... I've listened to my CDs on many expensive systems, of others, and wondered, how could that setup get it so wrong! Yes, total system distortion is the answer, but the format in itself is not a problem - just the right mechanism to insert that music data into the replay chain without causing additional problems, is the answer.
Does your purveyor of HD give provenance? I've heard enough horror stories about some labels just resampling the 16/44.1 masters that the very few 24/96 downloads I have are from classical labels like BIS who release SACDs so you know it started life as hi res.
Reminds me, I do need to buy the Linn mozart requiem...
Reminds me, I do need to buy the Linn mozart requiem...
Hearing's sensitivity to nonlinear distortion increases as SPLs drop; sensitivity to linear aberation increases as SPLs rise.
yes, and when I listen critically it is at various levels.... high and mid and low.
Just like when I do measurements/tests... at various levels.
THx-RNMarsh
try -- Computer Audiophile - Objective And Subjective - The First Three Led Zeppelin Albums At 24 bit / 96 kHz
Rock n Roll.
THx-RNMarsh
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