Nah we can do it all digitally. But there is an industry set up to make people buy the BS. The truth is there is nothing analog that can't be perfectly emulated digitally. Remember I come from the world of analog and from an industry that would rather not hear me say that. I have developed however an allergy to BS and I stomp on it like the roach that it is.
Thanks goodness someone has mentioned this. I did have this argument with fas42 before.
Here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/120847-what-causes-listening-fatigue-28.html#post3565148
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In your world I then expect the audiophiles are without reference to reality,
and then maybe the audiophiles are not the only ones
No, that would be compression.
It's just that I'm always seeing it said that compression is essential, but if I stick a mic into my PC sound card, set the gain control appropriately and record myself playing the piano, it sounds fine (audio quality-wise!). I'm pretty sure I could sneak a digital recorder into a classical concert and record it from my seat in the audience and it would also sound fine. No deliberate compression. I'm perfectly willing to believe that if a label says "Original Dynamics", it means it.
Some things are fairly easy to record very well without any compression, other things need either compression or truly exceptional players.
Electric guitar is one of the easy ones and the more the player cranks up his amp the easier it is since the guitar amp itself already compresses the signal.
Electronic keyboards are also quite easy.
Electric bass almost always needs a compressor on it unless you are James Jamerson and so do the vast majority of singers.
Drums are somewhere in between, usually ok to record without and add some in the mix later. Very much depends on the drummer.
At least that's how it worked for me.
Electric guitar is one of the easy ones and the more the player cranks up his amp the easier it is since the guitar amp itself already compresses the signal.
Electronic keyboards are also quite easy.
Electric bass almost always needs a compressor on it unless you are James Jamerson and so do the vast majority of singers.
Drums are somewhere in between, usually ok to record without and add some in the mix later. Very much depends on the drummer.
At least that's how it worked for me.
When I was a kid I could easily hear the line oscillator in a TV. I could also easily tell if a program was live, film or video tape simply by the sound quality. Now my hearing drops like a stone at 12KHz.
Cheers
Ian
My guess is that it is difficult to record a full symphony orchestra without compression, at least for some pieces. Single flute vs. whole orchestra? However, compression should be the minimum necessary to fit the program dynamic range into the recorder dynamic range while maintaining reasonable signal to noise ratio. This is how it was done before the loudness wars started.
What's the sound level in a quiet hall? 25dBA perhaps? That would be with no people. Peak levels near the front might be 110dBA. So it seems that from the recording end, this isn't impossible. Playback might be another story, of course, but as you've pointed out before, the compression should be done on that side so that those of us who have high dynamic range systems can enjoy the playing un-emasculated.
This is a 'known' problem - abraxalito is very strong on this. Trouble is, the S-D DACs have very long warm-up times, IME. From cold, they sound pretty shocking - the treble is dead as a doornail. Only solution I've found so far is to thrash them for at least an hour or so, and then they steadily come to life. Once fully conditioned they're fine from then on ... and if anything keep slightly improving ...
And my answer here, http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/120847-what-causes-listening-fatigue-28.html#post3565192, still stands.
The number of miserable attempts by ultra-expensive hifi gear I've heard over the years, trying to do piano - they're so off the mark, it's quite painful ...
Edit: I might just point to my very crude bit of recording to demonstrate this point, http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/blog...diophile-perhaps-just-me-has-gone-before.html, done on the el cheapo HT system - apologies for the limitations of the recorder ...
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Aaaaah yes, the number of times I have walked towards a piano in my life.
Finally, fas has hit the nail on the head. It is SUBJECTIVE, meaning probably you alone experience it and what ever "changes" you hear are inside your head. Many have tried to point out the causes of this, e.g. confirmation bias, but you have demonstrated an uncompromising alienation from reason and any attempt to accept well established errors in human thinking that can affect all of us (as well as re-writing the laws of physics).
The rewriting of the laws of physics is always the interesting one ...
The process is simple: real piano playing at other end of house, you walk towards the sound until you're next to the instrument; next step, put on a piano recording to match that volume, should sound 'right' from the other end of the house; then, walk up to the speakers and that experience should be the same as for the real piano. Most systems don't do that well, a few will ...
If the universe will explode because that comes to pass, I apologise ... no galaxies were injured while conducting this thought experiemnt ....
The process is simple: real piano playing at other end of house, you walk towards the sound until you're next to the instrument; next step, put on a piano recording to match that volume, should sound 'right' from the other end of the house; then, walk up to the speakers and that experience should be the same as for the real piano. Most systems don't do that well, a few will ...
If the universe will explode because that comes to pass, I apologise ... no galaxies were injured while conducting this thought experiemnt ....
I was under the impression that the really analogue digital one to go for was from Roland : V-Piano :: Products :: Roland
Probably though its severely compromised by use of an S-D DAC chip. Perhaps salvation comes in the form of an S/PDIF output though....
I don't expect them to sound the same, I intend for them to create the same experience. When a system reproduces in a fashion that creates lifelike sound, it works everywhere, you don't have to be in a precise spot to "hear" it - one can walk around the house, and the sound experience is consistent, the illusion always sustains.
Probably everyone who doesn't "get it" should experience such a system working, and then will start to understand, and appreciate, what the differences are ...
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