Long time lurker/drooler. I am an ex loud rock band wooddorker with some old wedges I use to DJ occasionally. Usually more than plenty for what I do. As fate will have it I am scheduled to DJ a niece's wedding and the room is a bit bigger than I am use to and don't think the wedges will cut it. Looking to add some low end. Obviously looking to save a few bucks going DIY but otherwise like the Yorkville subs on the market today. Anyone willing to take me under their wing and offer some suggestions or help? I have a Mackie 1400 laying around and am partial to a pair of SS15s but maybe some 18's in reflex will suffice. As usual (and customary for a first post I think?) I am trying to do the impossible: loud, low, AND small 
All kidding aside, I am am torn between loud and low, but willing to deal with size... OR should I just go to Guitar Center and put a 18" Yorky on plastic...
Let the ridicule begin!
THANKS IN ADVANCE
All kidding aside, I am am torn between loud and low, but willing to deal with size... OR should I just go to Guitar Center and put a 18" Yorky on plastic... Let the ridicule begin!
THANKS IN ADVANCE
Buy the yorkville then return it
I'd say build something that you can use for multiple things, say a music system in your garage or maybe bbq's etc.
Is this really only a one time use thing? If so I'd say rent a sub setup from someone. Don't bother with the time effort and $ for just a one night thing
Where are you located?
I'd say build something that you can use for multiple things, say a music system in your garage or maybe bbq's etc.
Is this really only a one time use thing? If so I'd say rent a sub setup from someone. Don't bother with the time effort and $ for just a one night thing
Where are you located?
Great ideas so far. FREE!
I still have some buds in the business so I can borrow if need be and the wedges are doable, so it's not do or die... I would have other uses for a sub as I do other gigs. Doesn't hurt that I have a decent shop to work in either.
Thanks for the input, I am in Northern Ohio.
I still have some buds in the business so I can borrow if need be and the wedges are doable, so it's not do or die... I would have other uses for a sub as I do other gigs. Doesn't hurt that I have a decent shop to work in either.
Thanks for the input, I am in Northern Ohio.
Isn't that technically 2 questions?
Although I could splurge I would like to keep cost down and I think $500 is good figure for DIY. I have a Mackie 1400 and while it might not be a macrotech but does have decent wattage (1400W @ 4 ohms) and a variable low cut (bessel 2nd order) and 63/125hz low pass (bessel 3rd order). While the low cut might not be as steep as I'd like, it should suffice for some TH protection.
Some other info: room sits 300-400 people with 20' ceilings or so.
Although I could splurge I would like to keep cost down and I think $500 is good figure for DIY. I have a Mackie 1400 and while it might not be a macrotech but does have decent wattage (1400W @ 4 ohms) and a variable low cut (bessel 2nd order) and 63/125hz low pass (bessel 3rd order). While the low cut might not be as steep as I'd like, it should suffice for some TH protection.
Some other info: room sits 300-400 people with 20' ceilings or so.
Gotcha. As you alluded to I have leaning on a mid level driver with the hope of building 2 cabs since I believe more drivers is the key. Kinda thinking $350 drivers/$150 wood.
It's been quite a struggle for me trying to extract and keep track of info here in my quest for low end: What design couple better, single high power cab versus multiple low power cabs, larger driver designs versus smaller etc. If it pleases the court, I would be willing to lug around a single "beast" if it will outperform 2 or more portables since I am not regularly gigging.
Thanks for your help thus far.
It's been quite a struggle for me trying to extract and keep track of info here in my quest for low end: What design couple better, single high power cab versus multiple low power cabs, larger driver designs versus smaller etc. If it pleases the court, I would be willing to lug around a single "beast" if it will outperform 2 or more portables since I am not regularly gigging.
Thanks for your help thus far.
Hi Zwiller,
Have you seen mRgSr's thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/232219-325-lab-12-based-pa-tapped-horn-35hz-extension.html ?
Might work for you.
Regards,
Have you seen mRgSr's thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/232219-325-lab-12-based-pa-tapped-horn-35hz-extension.html ?
Might work for you.
Regards,
out of 500, I'd be keen to try and squeeze 2 of those lab12 horns out of the budget, but it really depends on price per sheet of 3/4
I'd like to submit a bc15 tbw100 loaded Keystone sub as an option as well, little less driver budget than 2 lab 12, little less wood than 2 lab 12s. your amp would not make full use of the powerhandling of the driver, but given your limited hipass capabilites that may be a good thing.
I'd like to submit a bc15 tbw100 loaded Keystone sub as an option as well, little less driver budget than 2 lab 12, little less wood than 2 lab 12s. your amp would not make full use of the powerhandling of the driver, but given your limited hipass capabilites that may be a good thing.
Thanks gents. I like both ideas. That B&C driver is a beast! I can definitely squeeze 2 lab horns out of the budget but...
I saw a mention in the thread for the PAL12 about a 2kw amp for $300. Not opposed to upgrading the amp for $300 or best bang for buck. Anyone care to offer a suggestion as to an amp?
Is a better strategy to upgrade to a higher power amp with better processing and high power driver/single B&C keystone? That will get me higher SPL and less hauling, right?
I saw a mention in the thread for the PAL12 about a 2kw amp for $300. Not opposed to upgrading the amp for $300 or best bang for buck. Anyone care to offer a suggestion as to an amp?
Is a better strategy to upgrade to a higher power amp with better processing and high power driver/single B&C keystone? That will get me higher SPL and less hauling, right?
The reason I designed the Keystone was to get more output from the same truck space.
Using the same power (Crest CA-9), and one BC18SW115-4 (bridged mono) compared to 4 Lab 12 (two per side of the amp) in dual ported enclosures, the Keystone outperforms them in every regard.
As a reference, the four dual Lab 12 had more output at 40 Hz than eight dual 18" Meyer HP650.
The price increase of the neo driver now would make me choose the BCTBW100, only slightly less (ultimate) output than the BC18SW115 for a lot less money.
The Lab 12 loaded Pal12 is a nice "bite size" cabinet, but the big gun B&C 18s" are simply way better drivers, and a single 18" Keystone is lighter, easier to build, and 21.5% less truck space (15.52 cubic feet compared to 19.79) than a pair of PAL12.
Art
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I almost recomended your dual 12 lab 12 design, but it costs the same as the keystone (roughly), unless your a lab12 sourcing wizard (the deals are out there)
while we're roughly on the subject, why does PSS have the wrong picture up for the TBW100?
http://www.prosoundservice.com/m9/BC-18TBW100--b-c-18tbw100-18-subwoofer.html
its a shame they've risen so much in price, probably demand driven.
while we're roughly on the subject, why does PSS have the wrong picture up for the TBW100?
http://www.prosoundservice.com/m9/BC-18TBW100--b-c-18tbw100-18-subwoofer.html
its a shame they've risen so much in price, probably demand driven.
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Even at the current BCTBW100-4 price the Keystone would be far cheaper than a pair of the WS 2xLab 12, and also would be a lot lighter and have quite a bit more output above 50 Hz.
You might want to mention to PSS that they have the wrong picture, unless B&C has changed the frame
.Am I the only person who shudders with disgust at the thought of 3 hours of forced exposure to ear-damaging distorted thumping? Of course, despite your taste (and kind of hearing loss you might have from your own earlier exposures), you might be the one DJ in the universe who plays music at non-ear-damaging headache-inducing levels. In which case, my reaction does not apply to you, of course.
Funny, some folks think a DJ, equipment, and helping Beyonce's bank account is somehow superior to hiring a live band who need that kind of support from a happy audience event like a wedding.
Ben
Funny, some folks think a DJ, equipment, and helping Beyonce's bank account is somehow superior to hiring a live band who need that kind of support from a happy audience event like a wedding.
Ben
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Great info. Gonna do some in depth reading on the Keystone. I have the CAD and have read the thread several times, most of which is way over my head.
Resisting all temptation to snag a Crown xti2002 at Guitar Center today since I need to go there to get some flatwoods for my annual band reunion and skins for a '47 Leedy I found at an estate sale... I suppose my love affair with low ended started the first time playing a well amplified kit outdoors at a young age.
With great power comes great responsibility. This may sound strange but my ultimate goal as a DJ is to be invisible and just be ambience to the event. It is likely the sub will not pushed until the end of the gig when my daughter takes over and plays what is considered popular music nowadays... Ultimately, this venture is for my sister-in-law and my niece. I just want to be able to deliver the goods when the lights go off and people get down. That reminds me I need to make sure the old par cans fire up!
Resisting all temptation to snag a Crown xti2002 at Guitar Center today since I need to go there to get some flatwoods for my annual band reunion and skins for a '47 Leedy I found at an estate sale... I suppose my love affair with low ended started the first time playing a well amplified kit outdoors at a young age.
With great power comes great responsibility. This may sound strange but my ultimate goal as a DJ is to be invisible and just be ambience to the event. It is likely the sub will not pushed until the end of the gig when my daughter takes over and plays what is considered popular music nowadays... Ultimately, this venture is for my sister-in-law and my niece. I just want to be able to deliver the goods when the lights go off and people get down. That reminds me I need to make sure the old par cans fire up!
Thank you for reacting courteously to my emotional outburst. Obviously you ARE a person of good judgment - as might be expected on this forum.
I carry ear plugs when I expect loudness assaults. One of my kids is a loud rock musician and another is a prosperous LA DJ.
Back to sound and coming from a home system of ESLs and a Klipschorn bass, I don't see HiFi solutions to portable/rentable PA bass that fits into a truck with no tail-gate lift. The laws of acoustics being what they are, it seems inevitable that party bass satisfying to a general audience (for want any non-pejorative term) requires producing some thumps in the 45-55 Hz range and not much sound below.
And the recordings enhance the thumping.
Perhaps it is my age, but that kind of old bass-reflex sound is headache-land for me.
Sad but true.
Ben
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After a brief review of Art's sketches can I ask some rookie/noob question as the the sequence of the build? Basically a 2 sheet build, right?
1. Each sheets gets ripped to create 22.5" and 25" lengths, then cut sides, top, bottom, back. (Horn parts are cut 90 degrees now and tweaked later?)
2. Measure and layout marks/measurements on both sides of working side of cab. Layout same on other side for nailing/screwing guidance. OR is there some kinda mock up foam board thing for guidance.
3. Build horn - determine angles and tweak bevel of horn sections made from 25" rips
4. Mount bottom panel then horn section
5. Add front, top, back panels
6. Measure angles and add braces. (Any advice I am lost on these)
7. Build keystone panel both sides rounded over keyhole
8. Paint visible interior
9. Drill and mount driver with t-nuts, wire, jacks, etc.
10. Mount side panel
11. Final exterior finish and paint
12. Mount keystone panel with no adhesive and screws for service access
I assume there is some forgiveness in actual construction. Some measurements are to a ten-thousandths of an inch... Leaning on PL glue and shooting 16g nails with the occasional clamp for help lining things up. How far am I off? Thanks!
PS - Ben, if it's too loud, you're too old Yesterday at my daughter's cheer competition the MC system had no low end at all but he pushed the thing and the dang mids made my head resonate... To me, there's good loud and bad loud...
1. Each sheets gets ripped to create 22.5" and 25" lengths, then cut sides, top, bottom, back. (Horn parts are cut 90 degrees now and tweaked later?)
2. Measure and layout marks/measurements on both sides of working side of cab. Layout same on other side for nailing/screwing guidance. OR is there some kinda mock up foam board thing for guidance.
3. Build horn - determine angles and tweak bevel of horn sections made from 25" rips
4. Mount bottom panel then horn section
5. Add front, top, back panels
6. Measure angles and add braces. (Any advice I am lost on these)
7. Build keystone panel both sides rounded over keyhole
8. Paint visible interior
9. Drill and mount driver with t-nuts, wire, jacks, etc.
10. Mount side panel
11. Final exterior finish and paint
12. Mount keystone panel with no adhesive and screws for service access
I assume there is some forgiveness in actual construction. Some measurements are to a ten-thousandths of an inch... Leaning on PL glue and shooting 16g nails with the occasional clamp for help lining things up. How far am I off? Thanks!
PS - Ben, if it's too loud, you're too old
Yesterday at my daughter's cheer competition the MC system had no low end at all but he pushed the thing and the dang mids made my head resonate... To me, there's good loud and bad loud...- Status
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