Which is what makes it a good joke!
I understand the concept, I've heard upward firing speakers. They have a certain charm and do work well for certain things.
But hey, ceiling speakers are mostly omni directional too, aren't they?
No, sorry. Never seen it, never heard it. Interesting looking job, tho.
Agreed!
I've long been curious about the scoring, recording and mastering of all that background music. Think it's all done out in L.A.?
If anyone wonders what would be the second most disturbing reflection in those tests ...
... yes you are right. It is the ceiling reflection.
If anyone wonders what would be the second most disturbing reflection in those tests ...
... yes you are right. It is the ceiling reflection.
yes indeed!
but for a conventional forward firing speaker only
but they are very different from a flooder because a ceiling speaker generates a very strong floor reflection
I thought it's quite famous :
Onkyo GS-1 on thevintageknob.org
‚f‚r-‚P
now its designer is making a bit different speakers although based on exactly the same theory:
Yes: they're more expensive.
a) The customer has to buy N amps for an N-way system (external controller) or the speaker itself is much more expensive (internal controller).
b) The manufacturer (and the dealer, very important!) who sells a high-priced active speaker can't sell a high-priced Pre-/Power-/Integrated amp.
There ARE economical reasons to not sell active speakers, not technical. There are NO economical reasons to build a flooder (in contrary, you can tell a neat story about this technique, which is always good), but maybe there are technical?
Look, many of those peoples cited here very often (Toole, Olive, Geddes, Keele, ...) worked for big speaker companies (Harman/JBL/EV) where they had the opportunity to do many, many tests with a lot of different people, under very controlled conditions, and there's still no (good selling) flooder from these big companies? Come on.
As I haven't read all posts about the flooder in this thread, maybe you've already wrote it, but what IS a perfect flooder?
Are you guys still exclusively discussing ceiling-firing speakers placed near the floor? The thread should be renamed because it solely circles around the beliefs of a single poster.
I'd like to know that too.
I'd like to know that too.
Doesn't the flooder benefit from a floor based boundary reinforcement and a strong ceiling reflection? You sit a speaker directly on the floor, and that is a 3db boost at bass frequencies. How is a ceiling reflection any better than a floor reflection when both cause destructive interference?
an active system of a comparable quality to a passive system is not at all necessarily more expensive, rather less expensive
because it would be a game changer, and a game changer is risky for the good old business as usual
my further thougths on this
it is constant low directivity coincident (like KEF UniQ)and it is effectively integrated into the floor and into the side wall (Beveridge-style) or the front wall, depending on the proportions of the listening room - effectively integrated into the floor and into the wall by means of convergence baffles - see an example of such a baffle in the Snell Type One
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the difference is caused by the fact that a ceiling/coming-from-above reflection is not - unlike a ground/floor reflection - a spatial cue per se
Well, that's what you say. I've heard, and built, floor speakers, they're OK. But not anything I'd give up regular speakers for. If you love the effect and want to find technical reasons to do so, fine. I also find the effect interesting, but not enough to go full time with it.
It's a matter of taste.
It's a matter of taste.
Do you really expect me to buy this? This is a rediculous explaination.
"The light shineth into the darkness and the darkness comprehendeth it not."
Dude, you just can't fix this. They're going to argue for this flooder nonsense as long as they're alive. Makes the world go 'round y'know.
You mean?
thank You!
Please be so kind and share You experience. What were those floor speakers that You had listened to?
yes, it is certainly a matter of expectations, of "accumulated biases" as Dr Toole put it in His book and I find His explanation of different expectations quite convincing and His conclusion on that subject quite persuasive
Do you really expect me to buy this? This is a rediculous explaination.
What is ridiculous about it?
It is just psychoacoustics.
And it has been confirmed in the "Archimedes" Eureka-funded scientific research project I linked above.
Ceiling reflection is detrimental to the sound quality of a conventional forward firing speaker but it affects quality in a different way than floor reflection.
It is the floor reflection that destroys the sense of realism:
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Graaf, you are becoming tiresome. We all understand your love for the flooder speaker and the reasons for that love. We do not share the love. You've made your point, over and over and over again. Can we move on please? Your story has become tedious.
I am really sorry
please feel free to put me on Your ignore list
Markus76 was unhappy and tired and did just that and look - now he's happy
I can't put you on my ignore list, mods don't have one.
You've made your point, we understand. Since you started the thread, maybe you should have given it another title. Did you start the thread to discuss speakers and rooms as a system, or just to discuss the advantages of flooders? If the latter, then maybe a title change is in order. Nothing wrong with that. They are related, but different, subjects.
You've made your point, we understand. Since you started the thread, maybe you should have given it another title. Did you start the thread to discuss speakers and rooms as a system, or just to discuss the advantages of flooders? If the latter, then maybe a title change is in order. Nothing wrong with that. They are related, but different, subjects.
I believe my intention was clearly stated in the first post if this thread.
However it came out to be just a "flooder thread", which was not my intention.
why not - perhaps "floor coupled up-firing speaker" would be appropriate, because "flooder" would be enigmatic