Sy,
Your profile interests me greatly. Your listing of Dr. of Polymers tweaks my interest and I have some questions you could more than likely answer but this thread and this forum is not the correct place to ask any questions. Science is my friend even if many subject are currently over my head.
Your profile interests me greatly. Your listing of Dr. of Polymers tweaks my interest and I have some questions you could more than likely answer but this thread and this forum is not the correct place to ask any questions. Science is my friend even if many subject are currently over my head.
I'm not talking so much of getting an individual component up to some level of performance or not, rather that if a consumer does something seemingly silly or largely irrelevant to a system that the sound changes. So, either the "experts" need to have a list of all the pre-requisites for the device to perform adequately, or effective suggestions as to how mitigate these influences, or best of all, make the component robust ... meaning, no matter what the consumer does within reasonable limits that the behaviour of the component doesn't change.
A simple example: put different supports under an amplifier, the sound changes. How does the industry currently deal with that?
Frank
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Feel free to use the email link from the forum and we can "talk" offline. "Dr. Polymer" is the nickname Pete Millett gave me during my plastics days- now that I'm doing lubricants, metalworking fluids, and mold releases, he feels that "Dr. Fluids" sounds more intriguing.
Not wishing to push more buttons, qush, but I note in that link, by the author:
and
and
All my experience in this audio game has shown me that a system goes through a phase of being "brutally honest", until the last ounce of tweaking has sorted out distortion issues. FR has never figured in this finessing, for me, so my tendency would be to believe that it is the same for headphones ...
Frank
Humour, unfortunately, doesn't solve the problem ...
, The forums run deep with anecdotes of that "effect", I have played with such quite a lot in the past ... now that I've addressed some of the underlying problems it's something I largely don't worry about - that robustness I mentioned earlier ...
The point is, parts within components are sensitive to vibrations, and the "experts", in audio, largely don't want to know about it. In one sense audio is a measuring instrument aiming for accuracy of 1 part in a million, and any scientist worthy of the name knows this can be bloody hard to do! 1 part in a thousand is dead easy, cheap as chips machinery can do this ... once past this point sloppiness in any area will be severely punished by "wrong" readings ...
Frank
yeah hes an hd800 fanboi from wayback, it was amazing he even admitted there was an issue. which says more about how many other people have brought the issue up.
yes, you only illustrate my point, you know THE POINT IVE BEEN MAKING FOR THE LAST 10 HOURS? what makes you think that music, even delicate well recorded music is supposed to hurt you if someone makes a slightly grating noise in the background? brutally honest as opposed to honest is a negative. is that how you experience life or just music? it must be really hard to get around the world with that condition. is it just something you reserve to keep your nervosa healthy along with all these conspiracies and thinking you know better than designers?
yes, you only illustrate my point, you know THE POINT IVE BEEN MAKING FOR THE LAST 10 HOURS? what makes you think that music, even delicate well recorded music is supposed to hurt you if someone makes a slightly grating noise in the background? brutally honest as opposed to honest is a negative. is that how you experience life or just music? it must be really hard to get around the world with that condition. is it just something you reserve to keep your nervosa healthy along with all these conspiracies and thinking you know better than designers?
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Fas42,
What you are describing is obviously a mechanical vibration of some component in your equipment. Yes changing the type of footer under the equipment will change that as each different type of material will have a different transfer function. A rubber foot is going to transfer energy different than a solid aluminum foot. That is easy to understand. But your real problem is internal to the equipment. If it is that bad you could encapsulate the entire electronics in a potting compound that would stop that or highly attenuate it. Don't attempt to repair the equipment after that as your out of luck after potting. Why not just isolate the offending piece of equipment inside a secondary enclosure such as a sealed box with the equipment suspended internally to the secondary enclosure? Your situation is easily understood by most everyone here, it is not some mystery of some magic component.
What you are describing is obviously a mechanical vibration of some component in your equipment. Yes changing the type of footer under the equipment will change that as each different type of material will have a different transfer function. A rubber foot is going to transfer energy different than a solid aluminum foot. That is easy to understand. But your real problem is internal to the equipment. If it is that bad you could encapsulate the entire electronics in a potting compound that would stop that or highly attenuate it. Don't attempt to repair the equipment after that as your out of luck after potting. Why not just isolate the offending piece of equipment inside a secondary enclosure such as a sealed box with the equipment suspended internally to the secondary enclosure? Your situation is easily understood by most everyone here, it is not some mystery of some magic component.
Time to take a break from this ... I'll just say that a certain approach to getting good sound has proven very effective for me; and part of that approach is to get the system to throw all the information it can retrieve, at me. Then, I sort out why some aspects sound "brutal", which I've always found to be due to system playback distortion ...
Frank
Frank
Of course it's understandable, therefore all reasonably priced components should be made sufficiently "robustly" so that this is no longer a problem, or a concern.
To use the car analogy, suppose all BMWs and Mercedes get a bad vibration at 70mph? Do you tell the customer to just "quickly accelerate through the trouble zone ..." ?
Frank
So you're asserting that Sennheiser lack the engineering nounce to understand that they have a flawed product?
Frank
fas42,
Stay within the lines and off the Botts dots and the vibration will go away!
On a real note here, how can you expect the designer to presuppose the placement of every piece of equipment? Perhaps some may have the offending piece of equipment sitting on a vibrating shelf or even sitting directly on top of a speaker enclosure and transferring vibration directly into the device? But yes you are right that the equipment should be subjected to the entire frequency response range of a typical speaker system to see if this is happening. That is just a reasonable request of anything that is producing audio, not to self vibrate and produce spurious sounds from acoustical coupling.
Stay within the lines and off the Botts dots and the vibration will go away!
On a real note here, how can you expect the designer to presuppose the placement of every piece of equipment? Perhaps some may have the offending piece of equipment sitting on a vibrating shelf or even sitting directly on top of a speaker enclosure and transferring vibration directly into the device? But yes you are right that the equipment should be subjected to the entire frequency response range of a typical speaker system to see if this is happening. That is just a reasonable request of anything that is producing audio, not to self vibrate and produce spurious sounds from acoustical coupling.
Yes, you know, one of the many small compromises spoken about in the text that you quoted. it was clearly and repeatedly demonstrated in the measurements that you have either conveniently ignored because it gets in the way of your argument about a component youve never heard, or not understood.
the resonance gets to me, as does the odd presentation, obviously something about my physiology or hearing acuity (i'm about 10 years younger than Tyll) means it grates on me along with the others who have brought this non-imaginary resonance up; more than it does those who can forgive it (or simply cannot hear it). I am not the only person who is effected by it and it is not in the recording, thus it is not honest, by definition.
given your argument above, can you possibly not understand that?
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About vibrations problems, we used to test our amps on a vibrating machine yet in 1970 for the 2 type of trouble: generated noise, induced modulation.
If your amp have any of those 2 problems, and do not use microphonic tubes, it is a malfunction.
Vibration of a magnetic sheet too close from a wire, defective capacitance, etc.
Just imagine a mixing desk producing parasitic noises with the high level in speakers while you record a track !!! Never noticed such a problem for anything else that a bad connection/weld.
Poor cables can be microphonic too, with high impedances and huge amplification, like guitar mikes.
Take your speakers away from mechanical transmission vibrations to floor and walls, let your system lie on solid supports, care of your connections, that's all the concern.
Worry more about the vibrations in/from your transports (CD, turntable, tapes).
If your amp have any of those 2 problems, and do not use microphonic tubes, it is a malfunction.
Vibration of a magnetic sheet too close from a wire, defective capacitance, etc.
Just imagine a mixing desk producing parasitic noises with the high level in speakers while you record a track !!! Never noticed such a problem for anything else that a bad connection/weld.
Poor cables can be microphonic too, with high impedances and huge amplification, like guitar mikes.
Take your speakers away from mechanical transmission vibrations to floor and walls, let your system lie on solid supports, care of your connections, that's all the concern.
Worry more about the vibrations in/from your transports (CD, turntable, tapes).
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