Been going through the early posts and this caught my eyes. I now understand why my simulator says the opposite of what the SSA presents at its output. Feels like a kind of freedom from an old false belief.
Well, I still use Simetrix to simulate the turn-on thump protector which uses an IRF540, a 1000uF cap and a couple of resistors; and the real world time delay is very close to 1 second, almost same what the sim says.
Jay says,
Yes, I have been expecting this comment, as I was not so sure what "transparent" should mean to everyone
The sweet tubey sound is the second harmonic right? What I mean with transparent is the perception as if the singer is there (along with the emotion that always draw my attention to the music). No bipolar amp that I have heard can beat my tube amp (in the past) in term of this. But my AKSA clone strangely can beat my class-A amp in this aspect, that's why I keep it, even tho bipolar sound is not my cup of tea...
Would you still say that you don't like second harmonic, eh Jay?
edit- No offence.
I like to build better circuits. The best if possible. It's just my way to predict the "future". I don't want to buy 200 transistors, just to find out that my prediction match reality.
That's not my way. I listen first and try to find the red line from every experience, so my search can be closer and closer.
No offense. You have good ears. Just lack of experience (With bad ears, experience usually does not help much). Why not build the BIGBT amps by yourself, then make comment. Who knows you will have the same opinion as mine.
SSA BIGBT HP is very good, because it is designed by good designer. Type of output stage doesn't matter much imo. Which one will you choose: favorite output stage that does not work, or mediocre output stage that works very well.
I never said that SSA BIGBT HP is not good. It is very very good. At least it is the best that I have simulated. I'm just looking for amp projects. And no amp should stop my search for the best one
Your mind is occupied with crediting or discrediting. That is the truth about DOZ/JLH and SSA. T/SSA is very scalable into high power with lowish THD (THD is not increasing exponentially with power and frequency), an important feature of the topology.
Homemodder have already told you the effect of loudspeaker. I prefer mediocre amp with excellent speaker than excellent amp but mediocre speaker. The effect of loudspeaker is so so dominant to the sound, compared to the effect of amplifiers. Go build/design speakers. But they are far more costly than building amps.
You forget that I have built many amps. I have hundreds of power transistors, more than a hundred amplifiers. I build amps for fun. Otherwise, what should I do with my parts?
Jay says,
Yes, I have been expecting this comment, as I was not so sure what "transparent" should mean to everyone. The sweet tubey sound is the second harmonic right? What I mean with transparent is the perception as if the singer is there (along with the emotion that always draw my attention to the music). No bipolar amp that I have heard can beat my tube amp (in the past) in term of this. But my AKSA clone strangely can beat my class-A amp in this aspect, that's why I keep it, even tho bipolar sound is not my cup of tea...
Would you still say that you don't like second harmonic, eh Jay?
edit- No offence.
Hehehe. No, I don't like distortions, whatever the order. But I like listening to music as if the singer and the instruments are there. Should an amp have a second order distortion for this? No.
I want ALL distortions down, but I believe on the monotonic spectrum. It means second order cannot be as high as fifth order. I want minimum total distortion, as long as the higher order are lower than the lower order.
BTW, I like to find and collect the best amp for each topology. And I'm still curious about the Lin topology (I want to know what is the most expensive amp utilizing this topology). Do you have suggestion on which amp to replace my AKSA clone?
<No dissonance/fatigue>
Dear Jay, dissonance does not equal fatigue. Sharp dissonant intervals and chords play a prominent role in many traditional musical cultures. But I will agree that IMD could cause listening fatigue.
In my very humble opinion you cannot hear an amplifier, you can hear a speaker. The amount of harmonic or non-harmonic artifacts that an amplifier introduced into a listening chain is really negligible although we all would like to claim hearing vast differences between amplifiers.
Listening to LC's (early) SSA is enjoyable, relaxing and just plain nice. Whether odd or even order harmonics or how exactly they are distributed were responsible is really not the point.
Lazy Cat got the recipe right and it complimented the rest of my listening chain that is why I think this amp is a worthy and remain an integral part of music enjoyment.
Dear Jay, dissonance does not equal fatigue. Sharp dissonant intervals and chords play a prominent role in many traditional musical cultures. But I will agree that IMD could cause listening fatigue.
In my very humble opinion you cannot hear an amplifier, you can hear a speaker. The amount of harmonic or non-harmonic artifacts that an amplifier introduced into a listening chain is really negligible although we all would like to claim hearing vast differences between amplifiers.
Listening to LC's (early) SSA is enjoyable, relaxing and just plain nice. Whether odd or even order harmonics or how exactly they are distributed were responsible is really not the point.
Lazy Cat got the recipe right and it complimented the rest of my listening chain that is why I think this amp is a worthy and remain an integral part of music enjoyment.
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+1
I would never rely on SIM to evaluate an amp. Only real measurements and listenings.
Sim is just a tool to save time when you are about to calculate values, evaluate and compare different solutions in a schematic you are trying to define, OMHO.
An excellent amp with a mediocre speaker can provide-you a very natural reproduction, limited in bandwidth, tone balance, and/or level. But a bad amp with an excellent speaker can be terrific: You can hear all the distortions right in your face.
Each bad amp driving my speakers (JBL driver +spherical wooden horn) can turn them in an horrible thing, and change its tonal balance in a drastic way. It is like a microscope where you look in a surface you supposed clean
The thing i do not understand is why we can afford with pleasure such high distortions from any speakers, and so few from amps.
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Fine. All's well.
So you listened the BIGBT built in LC's way and then simulated it to find it to be very good. Fine, all's well again.
I never said that I won't build it or my future opinion won't match yours.
Lateral output, as it offers least headache in biasing and stability, and gives good sound, it works very well and its my favorite. BIGBT isn't my favorite, as I yet haven't tried it. It might be, might not be. I will tell you in future.
I never said that SSA BIGBT HP is not good. It is very very good. At least it is the best that I have simulated. I'm just looking for amp projects. And no amp should stop my search for the best one
I'm confused, BIGBT is good because it simulated well? And bad because it demands buying 200 trannies? Where is the working prototype which had strong character, and was that good and why. Thanks.
What do you mean? What truth? Please enlighten me.
What are you suggesting by the above? That it simulates with pretty decent graphs?
What does that has to do with BIGBT being worst because of 200 trannies?
I have 50s of transistors and 50s of amps. So I guess I'm only halfway there to throwing away my scope and rely on simulator.
I'm confused as this argument doesn't seem to go anywhere. I've made my points clearly in earlier posts and don't think they need an explanation. At least I didn't declare anything to be good or bad with any reference to the simulator.
I'll stop here for my own safety.
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Ah, thanks for posting this Christophe. It makes sense. Honestly I got confused by the claim that says otherwise. I test all my amps into the same fullrange speaker, which is a bargain between good and bad, so that the test ground for all the amps is the same, i.e. average speakers.
Not to say that I don't dream of having feastrexes though.
Yes, latfet is my favorite too. It has weaknesses, but it seems that the SSA is the best place for it.
But I still cannot decide soundwise: a latfet or a highly biased hexfet.
The issue is with the way each person differently appreciate the sound. I just want that sound that keeps me listening. It is not an easy thing to understand.
About what you said (DOZ vs SSA), it is true.
Now your mind is occupied by the idea that (free) simulators "do not work"
I'm lucky because I found simulation has good correlation with reality. Of course good engineering judgement (comes from experience) is required.
It doesn't matter if a simulated 0.0013% is actualy 0.1% or 0.7%. What matters is relative comparisons. There are ways/tricks how to setup simulators such that the result can be usefully interpreted. Consistency is the key. I simulated my commercial amps, and compare with similar topology, soundwise and by simulation. That's why I dare to say that simulation is "consistent" with reality (i.e. after the correlation has been verified).
SSA harmonics distribution imo is consistently good, so not an issue. I think latfet really find his home in the SSA. It's deficiency (i.e. dull sounding) is cured and what is left is the famous latfet sound.
I guess that identical with amps, speakers have "THD" and "IMD". Those high distortions from speakers (i.e. cone "controlled" breakups) is alike THD. That's why many can get away with them.
Been going through the early posts and this caught my eyes. I now understand why my simulator says the opposite of what the SSA presents at its output. Feels like a kind of freedom from an old false belief.
Well, I still use Simetrix to simulate the turn-on thump protector which uses an IRF540, a 1000uF cap and a couple of resistors; and the real world time delay is very close to 1 second, almost same what the sim says.
Did I really say all that??
Sims are great to test scenarios such as what you say. I use it all the time to design almost every electronic product we make, but it is an design aide and must be seen as such. I will for instance not design a heart lung machine only by simulation and offer it directly to be hooked to any patient, because he may have to take a very deep breath while we find the bugs.
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In speaker design, it is a common practice to build prototype, then listen for the sound. If there is some deficiencies with the sound, then the design must be assessed, to find out the cause and then the fix. This is done in cycles/iteration/loop to get to an acceptable result soundwise. This "voicing" requires that you have good ears. This practice is less common in amplifier design.
Some less experienced DIYers, say things what others/experts say. I don't. I have read enough, but to me something is still unknown until I EXPERIENCE it first hand.
What you said is so famous, but I still never had the moment or a chance to say "Oh, so this is what others are talking about."
Hi jay. Nobody is accusing you that you repeat after the experts. I do consider you a veteran expert, and I didn't repeat after you a thing you said, or any other experts here for that matter. All is encouraged to do their homework, I do.
Now I wonder if we could keep this "discussion" aside and limit it to only SSA.
Now I wonder if we could keep this "discussion" aside and limit it to only SSA.
Did so much DIYers use, todays, simulators as a judge ? Did everybody, as soon they see a schematic, rush to open-it in LTspice ? Adding perfect V power rails to feed it ?
If it is true, it is time to design virtual musical recorded sources and a virtual listener.
Manufacturers will have opportunity to provide perfect virtual components and we will save a lot of time for other activities and a lot of money.
Well, on my side, i would be very afraid to know that the plane i'm traveling in is piloted by a winner of a flight simulator challenge.
If it is true, it is time to design virtual musical recorded sources and a virtual listener.
Manufacturers will have opportunity to provide perfect virtual components and we will save a lot of time for other activities and a lot of money.
Well, on my side, i would be very afraid to know that the plane i'm traveling in is piloted by a winner of a flight simulator challenge.
can i use pair of 2SC5200/2SA1943 for output?Hi guys
Finally, I am proud to announce that the SSA Low Impedance HP design project is prepared. It was a DIY community mutual project since there are ideas, knowledge, effort and of course time & energy of many involved, to offer free SSA amplifier project to all interested.
Happy DIY, enjoy, regards Andrej
P.S. Special thanks to Alex, you're the Man.
how max rms for this amp 2R load?
With +50 to -50V rails, Around 2400 watts rms each channel if your power supply is able to push 2X50A peak.
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