A better technique is to design your chassis to meet Class II specs do you don't need the third wire in the first place.
But you never see any discussion about that. Anything that doesn't has a 3 pin IEC on it is considered "inferior" for some reason.
se
Not at all strange. That's a USPTO patent.
"It must be true, there's a (USPTO) patent" is about as good an argument as
"It must be true, I saw it on the interweb".
>For the record 
Leaving the green wire (from a normal 3 wire mains lead)
open, is not to be offered as an altrnative here in public.
But you know this.
SY and Scott
I heard the two recordings.
Thanks for sharing.
Through my crappy ears, they have tonal differences. But it is pointless to say anything trying to compare them, as they captured different sounds on different times.
How come you resisted to the temptation to record the second song simultaneously with both mic sets?
Since you both enjoy what you are doing, give us some basic info on the set-up (distance of the mikes from the singer, elevation from the floor, orientation of L/R capsules to each other, maybe recording space description ect. (one-two hand drawings would say it all).
OK. They both sound great!
George
Leaving the green wire (from a normal 3 wire mains lead)
open, is not to be offered as an altrnative here in public.
But you know this.
SY and Scott
I heard the two recordings.
Thanks for sharing.
Through my crappy ears, they have tonal differences. But it is pointless to say anything trying to compare them, as they captured different sounds on different times.
How come you resisted to the temptation to record the second song simultaneously with both mic sets?
Since you both enjoy what you are doing, give us some basic info on the set-up (distance of the mikes from the singer, elevation from the floor, orientation of L/R capsules to each other, maybe recording space description ect. (one-two hand drawings would say it all).
OK. They both sound great!
George
>For the record
Leaving the green wire (from a normal 3 wire mains lead)
open, is not to be offered as an altrnative here in public.
But you know this.
Yes, in the EU it would be a strong violation of safety regulations and law violation.
And, we have not had wall outlets without the PE pin for more than 50 years, as I remember. This thread sometimes (and more and more often) go crazy.
There might be differences between European countries then, because typically in Dutch homes the only wall outlets with earth wiring are to be found in the kitchen, where the washer/dryer is going and where the central heating boiler is installed. In all normal rooms, there typically are just two wire outlets. However, in all systems installed during the last decades, ground fault interrupters are installed. Yet, there is still a base of older installations where unsafe situations will occur with grounded appliances, since there is no ground available.
You need to ask? I think Bedini has a few too. The MEG generator is one of the most grandiose hoaxes of all, no one who has tried has been able to duplicate the results. How many years does it take listening to these claims with nothing to show.
>For the record
Leaving the green wire (from a normal 3 wire mains lead)
open, is not to be offered as an altrnative here in public.
But you know this.
SY and Scott
I heard the two recordings.
Thanks for sharing.
Through my crappy ears, they have tonal differences. But it is pointless to say anything trying to compare them, as they captured different sounds on different times.
How come you resisted to the temptation to record the second song simultaneously with both mic sets?
Since you both enjoy what you are doing, give us some basic info on the set-up (distance of the mikes from the singer, elevation from the floor, orientation of L/R capsules to each other, maybe recording space description ect. (one-two hand drawings would say it all).
OK. They both sound great!
George
The basic info is in the Linear Audio article, including a link to lots of information on this technique and a picture of the setup. We did record the entire evening without changing anything, only breaking when the 2G .wav limit was reached (which fortuitously happened between songs). SY can better descibe his livingroom.
The physical loop is still there. Remember, neutral is connected to the same point in the load panel as ground. But with no hard safety bonded ground, the system only has to contend with currents which go through the reactances of the components, things like power transformer interwinding capacitances. Means that the only effect possible via currents will be higher frequencies. Problem with higher frequency currents is the coupling mechanism is proportional to slew rate.
In the USA, a "good mains leakage trip" is known as a GFI. By requirement, it is NOT allowed to trip for leakage currents below 4 milliamps, and it MUST trip for currents in excess of 6 milliamps (within 2 line cycles if I recall). Equipment GFI's are different, they can do 50 milliamps, many are programmable to accomodate load "issues".
Are you suggesting that whenever a diode bridge is used to break a ground loop, there must also be a GFI feeding the system so that the diode bridge (which is unacceptable from the NEC regulations because it's so wimpy) is protected?
Brilliant...just brilliant..
A suggestion of
calibre.. nice, well done. I like it.j
Both Southpaw recordings were done with the same mikes and setup- Scott's condensers running into a Fostex FR2LE. They were mounted in a wooden frame covered with a fuzzy mitten to isolate left and right. The frame was put on a high tech isolation mount (i.e., a folding chair). I've attached a photo of the setup. The guitar is an old Yamaha dreadnaught with the high E-string removed and strung upside down.
For the Lee Barber cut, I used a Blumlein pair of crossed ribbons (Cascade X-15 with modified ribbons and re-transformered), a home-made mike preamp (60dB fixed gain, 1nV/rt-Hz noise), and an Echo Audiofire 2 interface. No silver SATA cable. Mike was about 120cm off the floor, about 1.5 meters away from Lee. Guitar is a Martin, one of the smaller steel string models.
On both sets of recordings, there's no compression, limiting, or EQ. They both make my puppy howl. Ceiling is lower than I'd like, about 3 meters. Concrete floor covered with thick padding and carpet.
Attachments
The physical loop is still there. Remember, neutral is connected to the same point in the load panel as ground. But with no hard safety bonded ground, the system only has to contend with currents which go through the reactances of the components, things like power transformer interwinding capacitances. Means that the only effect possible via currents will be higher frequencies. Problem with higher frequency currents is the coupling mechanism is proportional to slew rate.
In the USA, a "good mains leakage trip" is known as a GFI. By requirement, it is NOT allowed to trip for leakage currents below 4 milliamps, and it MUST trip for currents in excess of 6 milliamps (within 2 line cycles if I recall). Equipment GFI's are different, they can do 50 milliamps, many are programmable to accomodate load "issues".
Are you suggesting that whenever a diode bridge is used to break a ground loop, there must also be a GFI feeding the system so that the diode bridge (which is unacceptable from the NEC regulations because it's so wimpy) is protected?
Brilliant...just brilliant..
A suggestion of
j
John (N),
You are making the assumption it is a hot to chassis fault and the neutral is open. The units fuse or other protection should handle that. Neutral faults will not. The most common neutral fault is a lightning strike. Some utilities run the neutral as the top wire on the distribution system. This will place tens or hundreds of thousands of amps between the neutral and ground. The allowed three ohm ground rod system will still not protect the gear inside.
The other problems with diode ground isolation is that you are allowed 6 volts between the neutral and ground.
The third wire safety ground has been required in all new or remodeled wiring since the early sixties through-out most of the U.S. So any wiring older than that may still be 2 wire.
ES
"Are you suggesting that whenever a diode bridge is used to break a ground loop, there must also be a GFI feeding the system so that the diode bridge (which is unacceptable from the NEC regulations because it's so wimpy) is protected"
Jneutron, where I come from YES. And th same goes in EU as well.
2 wires and no RCD sounds absolutely crazy to me.
Jneutron, where I come from YES. And th same goes in EU as well.
2 wires and no RCD sounds absolutely crazy to me.
No, I am not. And, I am not making the assumption that neutral is connected to chassis in a 2 wire system either. I would NEVER recommend neutral to chassis, as it only takes one failure of design to make the chassis hot... failure in the wall outlet box, failure to use a wide bladed neutral cord...
While your stereo might require 3 phase
, most are single phase. An elevated neutral at the pole will not elevate in house grounds with respect to neutral, simply because they are tied at the load panel. The transient can indeed raise the entire electrical system with respect to ground, but neutral/ground will remain relatively consistent. That goes all to heck if the homeowner drops his own earthing rods elsewhere in the house, I'm sure nobody runs 4/0 copper earth to earth.6 volts? What kind of diode you talking about with VF out to 10 kA? The databooks I edited ran current out to about 100 amps max, VF to 1.6 volts.. Yes, I do have diodes that I test vf at 29kA, but those suckers are 3 inches in diameter..
For diy, I certainly agree.. If it's double insulated and listed, I've no problem with that.
j
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