I agree.
Here in the UK they've shown the original, german, australian and US versions at one time or another and I'm sad to say that the US one is by far the most tedious. May be if they got presenters one can actually care about one way or another but they seemed to all had a personality bypass performed on them.
It seems to me, and I could be wrong here, that US testing is either blatant advertising, or boils down to 1/4 mile results.
US cars never sold well in Europe because they are mostly concepts of 1950ies driving (plus the size, too big for most old European cities). But let's not forget that some of automobile icons were in fact made in USA - anyone remember the Lola, from the early 60ies? Muscle cars, ALL of them, were wimps compared to the Lola, which was, truth be told, strictly a race car. There was the Ford GT, which I would kill for. And, of course, the still current legendary Chevy Corvette.
However, with all due respect to one and all, in my view, the British TVR was the essence of poison, a light chassis and a damn powerful engine, race track steering and handling, a dream. Its fit and finish were poor, but for sheer driving pleasure, that was the one to beat.
My fun car is an attempt to combine Italian style engines (no turbo, just sheer, raw power through revs, sound is a syphony, my limiter is set at 8.500 rpm) with British type (specifically, Cosworth type) handling, agility and breaking. Opinions will vary, but I feel very happy in it.
My preference for tuned cars from Britain no doubt comes from the fact that I took rally driving lessons in Britain, on the then popular Ford Escort Cosworth (1.6 litres DOHC engine, twin Weber 45 DCOE carbs, 120 bhp street legal version, 160 bhp rally version, 180 bhp speed racing version). Ah, those were the days! A bottle of spring water cost more than a litre of high grade petrol!
One more option is BTR. When I owed Nisan Armada it had FLYBTR number plate. Fast like racing car, but big and strong like BTR.
Hi,
Long ago, behind seven mountains, seven seas and two big walls I drove a russian made FIAT (under licence), it was very dependable, after a lot of work...
I had a sticker in the rear window that read:
"I originally wanted a Lamborghini but could not pronounce the name..."
(in german)
At yea olde car shoppe:
Customer: "I want a La.., La.., La....."
Salesman: "Lada?"
Customer: "No, but give me one anyway"
Salesman: "Put your name here at the bottom. You can have one in twenty years when your name is at the top."
Ciao T
Long ago, behind seven mountains, seven seas and two big walls I drove a russian made FIAT (under licence), it was very dependable, after a lot of work...
I had a sticker in the rear window that read:
"I originally wanted a Lamborghini but could not pronounce the name..."
(in german)
At yea olde car shoppe:
Customer: "I want a La.., La.., La....."
Salesman: "Lada?"
Customer: "No, but give me one anyway"
Salesman: "Put your name here at the bottom. You can have one in twenty years when your name is at the top."
Ciao T
Oh, FIAT made some fabulous cars. The FIAT Dino, for example, two seater by Pininfarina, coupe by Bertone. The X/19 mid engined two seater, which was made for the US market some 7 or 8 years after the official production stopped (Bertone did it). In its day, the 128 was years ahead of the competition, and was Car of the Year 1968.
FIAT always made great engines, but often failed with bodyworks. And all Italian cars usually have a problem, or two, or a thousand, with electricity inside, one way or another. Your fuel gague dies, you can't just get a new one, you have to buy the enrite new instrument board. To change a burnt out light bulb on a FIAT Stilo, you need TWO HOURS of service work, which promoted the European commission to introduce new legislation strictly forbidding such practices.
As for Zastava (Flag), they produced FIAT vehicles on licence. Their one and only original car was the Florida - design by Giugiaro, mechanics by FIAT, made in house. The export version is also known as the Sana. In 1988, when it appeared, it actually started to sell very well indeed, the two key markets in Europe being the UK and (gulp!) Germany. Unfortunately, that, as just about everything else, was cut short by the bout of local wars.
Today, Zastava does not exist as such any more, it's now owned and renamed to FIAT Serbia. They just showed off the first brand new model from that marriage, the FIAT 500L, and you can expect to see it in the US showrooms soon. However, with a starting price of € 16,000 in Europe, I seriously doubt it will sell well. All the Korean boys undercut it in price and offer more for the money.
Il Dottore, the late Giovani Agnelli, took FIAT to its pinnacle in the late 60ies and early 70ies, but also to its darkest times, which were the 80ies and the first half of the 90ies. Now FIAT faces a reputation of poorly made cars (which they are not right now) and has somehow lost its course, they don't seem to know which way to head for.
Hi,
I was inside a BTR some ejit drove in the path of a .57 cal (14.5mm) heavy machine gun. Make mine a T-84 Please and confiscate any loose RPG's...
Ciao T
I was inside a BTR some ejit drove in the path of a .57 cal (14.5mm) heavy machine gun. Make mine a T-84 Please and confiscate any loose RPG's...
Ciao T
Russian design school: repairability is one of major criteria, sometimes weighting more than reliability. After buying Lada you had to go underneath and inside and tighten all bolts and nuts.
It appears the export models were far better. It was, and still is, very popular over here. Rough, uncouth, but dependable and cheap, even with an air con. Yeah, they actually built one in.
As for the Lada Niva, the jeep, I saw a test in a British mag dedicated to SUVs, jeeps and generall 4 wheel drive terrain vehices, and in their test, that ugly, uncouth amd downright primitive Lada Niva, beat the lot of them: Nissan, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Land Rover, the lot, for sheer terrain tolerance - it will go whene no other four wheel machine will.
But on the road? If you don't own an oil well, don't even think about it.
My Mini was too stiff for the street as it came. Stock, the tires would bounce off the ground. It was almost as exciting in a corner with bumps as my Morgan was. Just 70 years newer design. Progress? After a set of Bilsteins and civilized tires, decamber by slotting the front fenders, and different bars, it could just keep the rubber down. Right at the edge. Cornered in the upper .9's. It beat me to death going to and from work and was so noisy I never bothered to improve the stereo. The GTI is softer, better poised and only a tenth or so slower in a corner. It is better than I am by quite a bit. I have only had about an hour of professional training.
Fiat still gets beat up on their reliability, but compared to the Mini, well let's just leave it at that.
Fiat still gets beat up on their reliability, but compared to the Mini, well let's just leave it at that.
Hi,
No, the T-90 is the "economy" version. Basically just a T-72MKII. Cheap throwaway Tank.
Ten last around five minutes against a single M1 Abrams, ask Saddams Tank commanders.
The T-84 comes from the T-54, T-64, T-80 etc. line.
Kind of like Audax 10" vs. JBL 12"...
Ciao T
Wake up, T., it's T-90 today.
No, the T-90 is the "economy" version. Basically just a T-72MKII. Cheap throwaway Tank.
Ten last around five minutes against a single M1 Abrams, ask Saddams Tank commanders.
The T-84 comes from the T-54, T-64, T-80 etc. line.
Kind of like Audax 10" vs. JBL 12"...
Ciao T
Hi,
Yes.
In the 80's we used to joke that soviet micro-chips (integrated circuits) had one distinct advantage over the american, japanese, european and east germen alterntaives.
They where big enough to walk inside to service them...
Actually, russian electronics where better than their reputation.
I owned a Raduga soviet Colour TV (hybrid with tubes in all the output positions and pretty much fully discrete) which with some tweaking gave a much better picture quality than the east german all solid state and IC based TV's managed using the same picture tube. It was more reliable too...
Ciao T
Yes.
In the 80's we used to joke that soviet micro-chips (integrated circuits) had one distinct advantage over the american, japanese, european and east germen alterntaives.
They where big enough to walk inside to service them...
Actually, russian electronics where better than their reputation.
I owned a Raduga soviet Colour TV (hybrid with tubes in all the output positions and pretty much fully discrete) which with some tweaking gave a much better picture quality than the east german all solid state and IC based TV's managed using the same picture tube. It was more reliable too...
Ciao T
Hi,
No, the T-90 is the "economy" version. Basically just a T-72MKII. Cheap throwaway Tank.
Ten last around five minutes against a single M1 Abrams, ask Saddams Tank commanders.
The T-84 comes from the T-54, T-64, T-80 etc. line.
Kind of like Audax 10" vs. JBL 12"...
Ciao T
Ooooooh, that way way below belt - but, what else to expect from a tube guy?
If tht's the 89x80 mm borexstroke engine, then be advised it is an European designed and probably manufactured angine. Ford has a very large negine manufacturing facility in Belgium.
And I did not say "slow", I said the overall driving experience is as if I was driving a 50ies US made car. It's soft, it wobbles, it's all over the place and the braking is nothing to write home about.
Ultimately, I see GM, Ford and Chrysler rebadging and bringing in cars under their moniker from Europe and South Korea, not the other way around. Long before your Taurus, Ford had a Taunus in Germany, after the Taurus mountain range - who do you think copied whom? Opel, GM's German subsidiary, had exactly one (1) model ever featuring a US made V8, the Diplomat - it sold very badly and was deleted from the program just two years or so after its introduction.
And I see nothing odd about any of that. Every market has its preferences. In the US, people like 'em big and confortable as they see comfortable - who cares if an average European thinks that's too soft and wobbly? And given that the last figures I saw, some 7 or 8 years ago, showing the the development of an automobile engine costs over $400 million, it's only rational that the big boys should spread what they already have as much as possible.
So my Daewoo Nubira is simply GM/Opel's old Vectra II with a different skin, because may entire drive train is by GM/Opel, and the car, although designed and developed in S. Korea, was actually assembled in Poland. That's the way of this world.
Nor are the big boys afraid of buying in their engines. GM for example shops for its 2 litre diesel engine in Italy - from VM Motori, a company specialized in manufacturing OEM diesel engines. ALL current GM's offerings in Europe, Asia and Australia, such as Cruze, have that same engine.
BTW, I know all this because I'm slowly beginning to look for a new car, so I'm in the thick of it. I'll buy it probably next year about this time, but I like to be informed.
I appreciate that you guys' input your experience with autos. It teaches me, and you would do well to learn from me when you can.
For example, it is a 'reality' that poorly made chassis that flex a lot, are much more FUN to drive. You can get the SAME experience at 40 mph, as a well designed car at 100 mph, like a Porsche.
I owned a '65 AH Sprite, put 5000 mi on it in Europe, and 50K mi in the USA and I LOVED IT! Was it fast? No. Was it fun, yes!
For example, it is a 'reality' that poorly made chassis that flex a lot, are much more FUN to drive. You can get the SAME experience at 40 mph, as a well designed car at 100 mph, like a Porsche.
I owned a '65 AH Sprite, put 5000 mi on it in Europe, and 50K mi in the USA and I LOVED IT! Was it fast? No. Was it fun, yes!
Hi,
No, the T-90 is the "economy" version. Basically just a T-72MKII. Cheap throwaway Tank.
Ten last around five minutes against a single M1 Abrams, ask Saddams Tank commanders.
The T-84 comes from the T-54, T-64, T-80 etc. line.
Kind of like Audax 10" vs. JBL 12"...
Ciao T
Just for your info, the T-84 was licenced by the old Yugoslavia. When it broke up in a series of local wars, at their height, Serbia and Croatia were jointly manufacturing it for Quwait.
War is war, but business is business.
As for Saddam's tank boys, I submit that wars are won or lost not by the weapons used as much as by the hearts of the men using them. By the time of that war, Saddam had lost all credibility even in Iraq, and was still in power by brute force only.
As an example, in theory, the early Americnas didn't have ahope in hell of winning their war against Britain - but they did, against all odds, because their heart was in it. They fought not for the glory of the King and Empire, but for their own households.
Or a newer example - how did Tito with his ragtag band of 50,000 partisans, manage to keep 600,000 German Wehrmacht soldiers in occupied Yugoslavia? By doing what seemed impossible, to the point that the Germans, backed by Italian occupying forces and local traitors, launched an entire offensive with the sole objective of killing him. Sometimes, when men have their heart in it, the impossible becomes possible.
It has to be the 2011 and newer 5.0 "Coyote" engine:
All aluminum block and heads, 32 valves, 4 cams: intakes and exhausts are each variable. Because of this it revs easily to 7k, yet gets good mileage. 412HP. I think 390 Ft Lbs of torque. 440 HP in the Boss 302
It really is a pretty amazing engine:
2011 Ford Mustang GT 5.0 Coyote Engine
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/te...ord_mustang_gt_50_coyote_engine/photo_01.html
All aluminum block and heads, 32 valves, 4 cams: intakes and exhausts are each variable. Because of this it revs easily to 7k, yet gets good mileage. 412HP. I think 390 Ft Lbs of torque. 440 HP in the Boss 302
It really is a pretty amazing engine:
2011 Ford Mustang GT 5.0 Coyote Engine
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/te...ord_mustang_gt_50_coyote_engine/photo_01.html
Last edited:
Drove a Sabb Sonnet for years, flat out everywhere. Never got a ticket as it did not go fast enough, but what a hoot. Now the Morgan, you could not quite call that chassis flex, more like a distributed suspension. Again, fantastic to drive well. However, you had to be careful, as with that big old 2-liter in there, it was actually stinking fast.
To get to work every day, the GTI is perfect. To get the same thrill, we are talking speeds that land one in jail. Summit point track days, yea!
As I cleared out the Spit, TVR, A ,and Mog, I have room for a table saw, joiner, planer..... My project today was to stay home with the fantastic weather and refurb an old 1960 Wards scroll saw I picked up cheap.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.