I don't have iTunes or this remaster.Would be interested to hear it. Will see if Amazon has the track for sale.
The link I provided should go to a web based page where you can play the preview by hovering over the track number to reveal a play button. No iTunes app needed. (May require quicktime plugin in the browser and/or not work in some browsers - not sure) Of course your computer would need to be directly connected to the stereo...
I can't check amazon for it to see if the effect is the same - as far as I know amazon don't sell mp3's outside the USA.
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Pano, this is really funny. My room has a floor from granite on concrete on soil, the walls are from 60cm thick brick with plaster on it and my cealing is from wood ( maple ).
So here you have your wood, stone, plaster combination. It sounds very good. I designed it that way. Reverberation time without much damping is 600msec straight. I have increased damping recently a bit with Fast Audio elements. I sit close in front of my widely spaced speakers, at the moment the MPL Slim baffles.
So here you have your wood, stone, plaster combination. It sounds very good. I designed it that way. Reverberation time without much damping is 600msec straight. I have increased damping recently a bit with Fast Audio elements. I sit close in front of my widely spaced speakers, at the moment the MPL Slim baffles.
Hey Simon, I got it from Amazon.com Sounds normal on headphones. Will go listen on speakers later.
Joachim. Sounds like a great combo. I've worked in some old spaces (18th century) that were oak floors and beams, walls a combo of plaster and limestone. Delightful acoustics.
Once, on tour, our Paris gig was in one of the old theaters on the Boulevards. Full size 19th century and all wood, wood, wood. Best sounding place we ever played, by far.
Joachim. Sounds like a great combo. I've worked in some old spaces (18th century) that were oak floors and beams, walls a combo of plaster and limestone. Delightful acoustics.
Once, on tour, our Paris gig was in one of the old theaters on the Boulevards. Full size 19th century and all wood, wood, wood. Best sounding place we ever played, by far.
Thanks for the demoes. The highest space in my opinion is "gothic", but it is the widest too.
The highest space in my opinion is "gothic", but it is the widest too.
Yeah, the gothic seems the largest space. The music doesn't sound right, tho. If you were playing in an acoustic like that, you'd have to play slower and take longer pauses.
Glad you heard the hight. I don't know if the clues are real, or just that we know a space that sounds like that is high.
Hi,
I fed Pano's "Church" example into a simple ambience simulator setup. There is added early reflections of a "medium sized room", part of them panned to "hard left/right" via simple crosstalk cancelling (CTC). Also there is some slight channel rematrixing. This gives a lot of subtle comb-filtering and that provokes some sensation of increased vertical width/shape of the enveloping decay, additional to width and depth.
I fed Pano's "Church" example into a simple ambience simulator setup. There is added early reflections of a "medium sized room", part of them panned to "hard left/right" via simple crosstalk cancelling (CTC). Also there is some slight channel rematrixing. This gives a lot of subtle comb-filtering and that provokes some sensation of increased vertical width/shape of the enveloping decay, additional to width and depth.
My take on that: These are no real height cues, it is just apparent source widening (ASW) at its best. Would work equally for mono.
May I tell a story from real listening? We have a nice gothic church in our town with a new and really capable organ - used frequently for concerts:
I tend to sit in the left side aisle 15 m in front of the organ. The nave is nearly 45 m deep. When the organ stops playing after some noisy finale, I have ample time to listen to the decay of the sound. The position of the organ gets lost immediately. Higher frequency cues ebb away in the upper right corner of the nave, when sitting in my position. Low frequency cues ebb away later without any cue, filling the complete church.
If things like this could be convolved into stereo, I would accept that stereo can do height. Until then its mostly gimmicks - nice but unreal.
I listened to all the horn samples over my main system there was no change in height of the sound stage. Although the first comparison between church and dry did seem of a other height but I conclude the huge room effect did fool me the first moment.
The sound stage kept the same height about 1,5 feet above the horn. There was change in depth and size of the hall, the with experience was not very different at my place.
I have music that appears to be wider than the room but not with this horn samples.
The sound stage kept the same height about 1,5 feet above the horn. There was change in depth and size of the hall, the with experience was not very different at my place.
I have music that appears to be wider than the room but not with this horn samples.
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Thanks Rudolph, that's a good example. You need the direct sound in that church for hight cues. The reverberant sound does not give you height at all?
On my system there is a little vertical spread of the horns, maybe 20%, but the height of the space is much changed. I close my eyes and point to where I hear the top of the space. For the gothic that was about 1M higher on the wall than the drier tracks. Very noticeable.
Do you mean just the height of the of the horns themselves, or the total space?
On my system there is a little vertical spread of the horns, maybe 20%, but the height of the space is much changed. I close my eyes and point to where I hear the top of the space. For the gothic that was about 1M higher on the wall than the drier tracks. Very noticeable.
I've had some good results interpreting the chart that LineArray/Simon posted the other day.
When I last tweaked voicing by ear, I had squeezed the vocals out slightly while attempting to reduce sibilance. I now used this chart alone to attack the curve and the result is that the performers have returned, sharing the space a little better. Presence is better and sibilance is reduced. Without this correction the speakers seem to have more of a signature, not tonally a bad thing but less natural, now the speakers seem to get out of the way just that little more.
When I last tweaked voicing by ear, I had squeezed the vocals out slightly while attempting to reduce sibilance. I now used this chart alone to attack the curve and the result is that the performers have returned, sharing the space a little better. Presence is better and sibilance is reduced. Without this correction the speakers seem to have more of a signature, not tonally a bad thing but less natural, now the speakers seem to get out of the way just that little more.
Attachments
Yes, the Gothic is a bit much, but I was going for effect. Don't remember where it came from - maybe Lexicon.
Simon, the guitar and voice are right in the middle for me. The radio is on the right, at or behind my speaker, where it stays even after the throat clearing and the music starts. I don't hear it up high at all. Pretty sure I have the same track, Sept 2011 re-release.
KSTR. Thanks for the remaster. It's different and in many ways better. There is a change in tonal balance, as well.
FWIW, I chose the horn track at random but it's interesting because although anechoic, it does not attach to my speakers the way the piano & voice track does. More like Speaker Dave's "Less Dry", the track is centered. I think this is because of the way it was miked. Tho completely dry, it still makes a phantom image between the speakers.
Don't remember where it came from - maybe Lexicon.Simon, the guitar and voice are right in the middle for me. The radio is on the right, at or behind my speaker, where it stays even after the throat clearing and the music starts. I don't hear it up high at all. Pretty sure I have the same track, Sept 2011 re-release.
KSTR. Thanks for the remaster. It's different and in many ways better. There is a change in tonal balance, as well.
FWIW, I chose the horn track at random but it's interesting because although anechoic, it does not attach to my speakers the way the piano & voice track does. More like Speaker Dave's "Less Dry", the track is centered. I think this is because of the way it was miked. Tho completely dry, it still makes a phantom image between the speakers.
I'll have to give it a listen. My "wish you were here" CD is from the "box set" which I got in 1988 (so a bit more than 15 years ago). I've always thought that it had a bit of a problem in that it sounds distorted in places...
Tony.
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