speaker cable myths and facts

[Steve Eddy]

I seriously doubt that, at room temperature, conduction electrons "pair off."

Yeah, you need Bybees for that.

se

 

[Pano]

Bright Silver Myth?

So if this is a thread about Cable "Myths and Facts" how about this myth:
Silver cables sound bright. Is it a myth? It is so widespread and persistent an idea that I wonder if there is a grain of truth in it.

I can't see why it would be true, but I'm not metallurgist. Does silver wire sound bright simply because it looks shiny? Does lead sound dull because it looks dull? Or are there actually some facts and physics behind the belief?

The belief is easy to dismiss, but myths and legends often have some basis in reality. Does this one?

 

[DF96]

Maybe he is thinking of near room temperature near superconductors - they would probably have nearly paired electrons. I don't think Fermi theory of solids is part of the training for electricians. Intuition in physics only works if it has been well-trained, and sometimes not even then!

If we use spark plug cables for interconnects, should we use starter motor cables for loudspeakers?

Edit: regarding silver, I suspect it is a myth - based on appearance, cost and herd effect. Is there any evidence?

 

[Pano]

should we use starter motor cables for loudspeakers?

I've used motor run caps in my crossover, so why not?

 

[SY]

Is there any evidence?

To date, zero.

Pano, I wouldn't take anecdotal correlation seriously- after all, most alien abductors are reported to be gray, short, and have large heads, along with a predilection for anal penetration. Does that mean there's a grain of truth? Or does it mean that the stories have a few common origins?

 

[ThorstenL]

Hi,

Well, wine is an absolute other thing. A complex chemical story with nature, human treatments etc...

And music recording and reproduction is not?

It is not a complex sonic story with nature, human treatments etc...

It is just a mechanical process that leaves us unmoved, emotionally univolved and is to be judged by the FFT and Oscilloscope only?

Famous wines began famous for some reasons: The chemistry of the land on which grows the grapes, the weather, the care of people to cut the vines, to select the clusters, winemaking etc .

And famous audio brands began with a Scope and THD meter?

Or with people listening (and not necessarily blind)?

There is a line here, where a similar art is needed as in wine and other things. And "brand perceptions" comes into it.

Yet it is based in the end in what can be heard by those who care to listen, how they please.

I have a simple maxim, life is too short for boring hifi. And I care nought if "interesting HiFi" measures better or worse in traditional terms, if it relies on silver cables and silver foil capacitors or not or indeed if needs surplus military tubes that exist in small quantities as they where made to defeat the communists in the final battle and involved a large amount of genuine unobtanium.

Some people share my view, others do not.

DE GVSTIBVS...

Famous wines are famous because all of those aspects are optimized and gives an average better wine years after years, than the others. And more famous, more care, more expensive, more famous etc.

And "famous" audio brands differ? They do not offer "more famous, more care, more expensive, more famous etc."?

Of course, better is a just a question of your taste ;-)

This we agree upon.

And I suspect also on DE GVSTIBVS NON EST DISPVTANDEM.

You can get an cheaper and better wine else where, one year or an other. But how to know before to taste ?

And you can get cheaper and/or better HiFi elsewhere and you can even build something that is better to your taste, just like the wine you grow and make may yourself be better than any Chateau Rothchild, to your taste.

There is nothing reasonable in the prices vs quality, it is just like a Rolls Royce and an other car.

Or Hifi, or watches or many other goods aimed at "connoisseurs".

On the other hand things aimed at lowest common denominator tend to be very cheap, like for example "Hustler" or "Best of first ...[something like backdoor]... sex VII" DVD's.

Some people knows where to buy fabulous wines at affordable prices.

Having lived a long time in England I pride myself on getting a "bargain" (it is the new national religion). As a result I try many cheap wines and invariably I find some revolting , others passable and in some cases, with a specific vintner and vintage, spectacular .

Then I normally buy a few cases from my local stockist after bargaining like an Armenian rug seller.

Incidentally, I also know where to buy my cables. And no, they do not cost ridiculous money, yet a little more than the cheapest stuff.

I cannot see any connection with electrons movements in a wire,

I can.

The (entirely imaginary, if I may add) big fat green electrons (my EE101 Lecturer told me they are big, fat and green, big and fat, because they heat wire while they have push through it) that circle the (equally entirely imaginary) atoms (of Democritus) in the wine I now drink also move...

In addition, signal transmission in wires is not accomplished by "electrons moving through it", but rather by a EM wave travelling at the wires surface, but that, as they say, may be too much information...

"All hail the Hypnotoad!"

(oblique but obligatory Futurama reference)

you can measure and calculate, and witch, precisely, have no taste.

I agree, Witch'es have no taste, though they can taste quite interesting. Warlocks do have taste and often powers though...

Where does this little excursion leave us?

At DE GVSTIBVS NON EST DISPVTANDEM, first.

At "inconclusive experimental results" where audibility is concerned second.

At, "personal choice" third.

I wire my HiFi with Silver.

Others wire theirs with carbon.

Others use Romex.

I have no issue with any of those.

I do have issues with blue meanies (the ones from "Yellow Submarine") that tell me I must wire my system with Romex because they have proven, using severely flawed and unscientific tests, that there is no difference between Romex and Silver.

I am willing to even concede that there is no difference that has been proven in public using scientific methods that suggests Silver over Romex.

Yet I cannot but observe that there is no proof in the public domain to the contrary either.

In the absence of proof, I do as I please and I darn well take it ill to be told otherwise.

Ciao T

 

[ThorstenL]

Hi,

Different wines actually do taste different, speaker cables all sound the same.

But would you submit to a double blind test to provide proof that Wines taste different and that ALL SPEAKER CABLES (without ANY further qualification) sound the same?

I shall be happy to administer both tests next time I am in your corner of the worlds.

Ciao T

 

[ThorstenL]

Hi,

regarding silver, I suspect it is a myth - based on appearance, cost and herd effect. Is there any evidence?

Regarding "the cheapest cable going is best" I suspect it is a myth - based on appearance, cost and herd effect. Is there any evidence?

Ciao T

 

[DF96]

There seems to be an echo in here, but it introduces subtle distortions by randomly changing words. Maybe I need to polish my crystals so they absorb all the negative energy.

 

[Pano]

Thorsten is still recovering after his tragic fall into the emoticon vat.

 

[ThorstenL]

Hi,

There seems to be an echo in here, but it introduces subtle distortions by randomly changing words. Maybe I need to polish my crystals so they absorb all the negative energy.

Nought of echo it be, but a mirror.

Ciao T

'Has anyone ever produced a mirror out of mud and straw?
Yet clean away the mud and straw,
and a mirror might be revealed."

Mevlana Jalaluddin Rumi - "Be lost in the call"

 

[ThorstenL]

Hi,

Thorsten is still recovering after his tragic fall into the emoticon vat.

I was trying to indicate that I am not entiery serious, only mostly.

Anyway, I never inhaled. Honest.

Ciao T

 

[Pano]

 

[auplater]

had a friend who simply stated "if it cost more, it must be better". End of discussion
Explains everything...
quod erat demonstrandum

John L.

 

[Pano]

So silver sounds better because it costs more? Wouldn't gold be even better?

 

[auplater]

aurum?

So silver sounds better because it costs more? Wouldn't gold be even better?

can't comment on that... conflict of interest and all that...

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

John L.

 

[Steve Eddy]

So silver sounds better because it costs more? Wouldn't gold be even better?

Yes.

And, it sounds MUCH better now, at over $1,800 an ounce than it did five years ago when it was only around $600 an ounce.

se

 

[SY]

But would you submit to a double blind test to provide proof that Wines taste different

I'd be happy to. Done it many times before, will do it many more times. In that professional arena, DBTs are the norm and necessary for any serious evaluations or for qualification for wine judging. Lame excuses don't fly, you can distinguish or identify wines blind or you can't. OTOH, once we're done with that, I'll happily put you to the test to see if you can distinguish between zip cord and the designer cable of your choice (with the zip cord having the same DCR as the designer cable and using a stable amplifier, maybe one of John Curl's). Or between copper and silver. Your choice.

Up for the challenge?

 

[503Timber]

I had some experience with testing wires.....here's how it played out. I have a friend who is not an audio guy but appreciates it. I was telling him how I just got some wire from a transaction I had with some speakers and how it sounded "different" than my wires I had in place for a few months. He told me I was crazy and he couldn't hear it so how could I. I told him no doubt I could tell the difference, but still hadn't decided which I liked best. So the testing began.....I left the room and he did some reworking of the wires. I sat down and identified them as the wires I just had hooked up and he changed nothing.....I left the room to more reworking and again nailed it......I did this 11 consecutive times and picked the proper wire each time. No way, no how I could see the wires or know if he had even done anything to switch them before I entered the room again. On the 12th pass I failed, he did one wire of each, one to one side and likewise to the other. A curve ball!! I thought he had hooked up a third wire so I guess I was partially right? I should also mention the wires are all of the same material, gauge and manufacturer, just different "series" or model of wire. Would I pick expensive wire over cheap.....who knows but I bet one would stand out to me.

 

[simon7000]

I'd be happy to. Done it many times before, will do it many more times. In that professional arena, DBTs are the norm and necessary for any serious evaluations or for qualification for wine judging. Lame excuses don't fly, you can distinguish or identify wines blind or you can't. OTOH, once we're done with that, I'll happily put you to the test to see if you can distinguish between zip cord and the designer cable of your choice (with the zip cord having the same DCR as the designer cable and using a stable amplifier, maybe one of John Curl's). Or between copper and silver. Your choice.

Up for the challenge?

I'll take you up on that challenge. !0 Ga. silver vs the equivalent resistance in copper wire 25 foot lengths, Speakers, amps negotiable. Source master tapes.