I am pretty sure this is what you maybe looking for.
Parts-Express.com: Dayton ND16FA-6 5/8" Neodymium Dome Tweeter | tweeter nd16fa-6 soft dome tweeter dome tweeter neodynium dayton audio dayton loudspeaker dayton
gychang
Parts-Express.com: Dayton ND16FA-6 5/8" Neodymium Dome Tweeter | tweeter nd16fa-6 soft dome tweeter dome tweeter neodynium dayton audio dayton loudspeaker dayton
gychang
That's the one I used.
Here's how I mounted it:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/134272-pioneer-b20-coaxial-tweeter-install.html
I just built a pair of speakers using B20's in a sealed cabinet and I used the Goldwood piezo crossed at 10khz and am very happy with it. I like the combo so much that I'm giving away my Zaph BAMTM floorstanders to my sister and it may be a while before I get around to pulling the drivers out of my new B20 cabinets so I can actually give them a proper finish instead of bare MDF 
I thought it would be great as a first project -- if Nelson Pass likes it, that's good enough for me. (And it's in the spirit of full range).
I'm glad to get your reply because I don't want to use the neodymium tweeter -- I see now what that's all about (a bit crazy but to each his own).
I too want to use the Goldwood and I love sealed boxes.
*What did you do for internal cabinet dimensions if you don't mind me asking.
How much stuffing? (maybe just all sides?)
*Did you mount tweeter on the front or rear firing as I've seen?
I want to get started on the cabinets right away.
I ordered the parts (a mere 110 bucks with free shipping) including the Goldwood tweeters.
THANKS.
I'm glad to get your reply because I don't want to use the neodymium tweeter -- I see now what that's all about (a bit crazy but to each his own).
I too want to use the Goldwood and I love sealed boxes.
*What did you do for internal cabinet dimensions if you don't mind me asking.
How much stuffing? (maybe just all sides?)
*Did you mount tweeter on the front or rear firing as I've seen?
I want to get started on the cabinets right away.
I ordered the parts (a mere 110 bucks with free shipping) including the Goldwood tweeters.
THANKS.
I just built a pair of speakers using B20's in a sealed cabinet and I used the Goldwood piezo crossed at 10khz and am very happy with it.
I am very interested in doing exactly same since I have the piezos available. I have couple of questions.
1. did u use L-pad (prefer not using it).
2. "crossed at 10khz" with what? (not good at electronics), parts number from PE will be very helpful.
3. Any pictures and size of the sealed cabinet?
thanks,
gychang
>>> I just built a pair of speakers using B20's in a sealed cabinet and I used the Goldwood piezo crossed at 10khz and am very happy with it. I like the combo so much that I'm giving away my Zaph BAMTM floorstanders...
Interesting! I have had several people message me that they replaced their current, more expensive speakers with Pioneer/Piezos. Someone from Japan replaced their $2,000 B&W bookshelf speakers.
http://www.zillaaudio.com/pioneerb20-piezo.htm
http://www.fullrangedriver.com/singledriver/DIYBX16.html
Personally, i have not tried the Dayton dome tweeter but i did try another brand dome and cone and still preferred the piezo.
Piezo on the front: the combination that sounded best to me was 8ohm resistor + .47uf cap. That's it. If you want less treble use .33uf cap. If you want more use .68uf.
Piezo on back: 22ohm resistor + 1uf cap + Lpad to adjust. You can shut the Lpad off or dial in too much treble. Somewhere in between is a balanced sound.
You can use Lpad with front firing too but i have not figured it out that way. I'd probably try the .68uf cap + 22ohm resistor + Lpad on front as an educated guess. The larger value resistor changes the overall output of the piezo so larger = louder. The Lpad would be used to adjust.
All of this is done by ear and sounds best to me. Others like crossing over at 2k... so many different things can be done to get the sound you like best. Overall the Pioneer/Piezo sounds laid back and mellow. I don't think it would ever win a blind listening test and whenever compared to some of the other speakers i like, for example the Betsy/Boomers or the Fostex BIBs i have on hand, the Pioneer/Piezo sounds dull. I think they have a sound many will like and many won't. But if you're curious and it's the amount of money you want to spend, i think it's a good choice if you prefer a fuller sound to a more forward sound typical of many full range driver projects out there that cost about the same... or more.
Godzilla
Interesting! I have had several people message me that they replaced their current, more expensive speakers with Pioneer/Piezos. Someone from Japan replaced their $2,000 B&W bookshelf speakers.
http://www.zillaaudio.com/pioneerb20-piezo.htm
http://www.fullrangedriver.com/singledriver/DIYBX16.html
Personally, i have not tried the Dayton dome tweeter but i did try another brand dome and cone and still preferred the piezo.
Piezo on the front: the combination that sounded best to me was 8ohm resistor + .47uf cap. That's it. If you want less treble use .33uf cap. If you want more use .68uf.
Piezo on back: 22ohm resistor + 1uf cap + Lpad to adjust. You can shut the Lpad off or dial in too much treble. Somewhere in between is a balanced sound.
You can use Lpad with front firing too but i have not figured it out that way. I'd probably try the .68uf cap + 22ohm resistor + Lpad on front as an educated guess. The larger value resistor changes the overall output of the piezo so larger = louder. The Lpad would be used to adjust.
All of this is done by ear and sounds best to me. Others like crossing over at 2k... so many different things can be done to get the sound you like best. Overall the Pioneer/Piezo sounds laid back and mellow. I don't think it would ever win a blind listening test and whenever compared to some of the other speakers i like, for example the Betsy/Boomers or the Fostex BIBs i have on hand, the Pioneer/Piezo sounds dull. I think they have a sound many will like and many won't. But if you're curious and it's the amount of money you want to spend, i think it's a good choice if you prefer a fuller sound to a more forward sound typical of many full range driver projects out there that cost about the same... or more.
Godzilla
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Godzilla -- I want to be blunt and ask....
do you prefer the tweeter front or back?
may as well use the benefit of other's experience before I get out my router, right?
typically you see the longer dimension as the depth of the box, I notice you have it as the width.
teach me why if you don't mind.
do you prefer the tweeter front or back?
may as well use the benefit of other's experience before I get out my router, right?
typically you see the longer dimension as the depth of the box, I notice you have it as the width.
teach me why if you don't mind.
To answer the questions from jmar and gychang,
Internal cabinet dimensions are 20.5" H x 10.5" W x 8" D, so just barely under 1ft^3. I used 3/4" MDF and the size turned out pretty good for me, I wanted something in a stand mount size.
I mounted the tweeter on the front, and I am using the PE 50w L-pads. I'm not sure if the L-pads are completely necessary, but I hadn't heard any piezo tweets before this and I wanted to have an easy adjustment.
I have an 8 ohm resistor soldered across the leads of the piezo and I am currently using a 2uf dayton poly cap in series to give me the ~10khz crossover point. I will probably experiment with smaller caps to see how the sound changes, I started with 3uf and it made things a little too bright for my taste, 2uf sounded better to me. I only just got these put together last night so I've only listened to them a few hours.
I was going to use some pillow stuffing from the craft store but then I found a whole bunch of thick blocks of egg crate foam in some shipping boxes that were going in the dumpster at work. I grabbed all I could fit into a big box and used that to cover the back wall of the cabs, the foam is about ~3-4" thick so I didn't put anything on the side walls of the cabs since they are pretty shallow anyway. I'll try and take a couple external pictures of the cabinets when I get home.
I just picked up a used copy of Aja by Steely Dan on vinyl and it sounded pretty sweet. They have nice punchy bass down to i'm guessing somewhere around 70-100ish hz, my little 8" Dayton powered sub filled in the low bass nicely.
Internal cabinet dimensions are 20.5" H x 10.5" W x 8" D, so just barely under 1ft^3. I used 3/4" MDF and the size turned out pretty good for me, I wanted something in a stand mount size.
I mounted the tweeter on the front, and I am using the PE 50w L-pads. I'm not sure if the L-pads are completely necessary, but I hadn't heard any piezo tweets before this and I wanted to have an easy adjustment.
I have an 8 ohm resistor soldered across the leads of the piezo and I am currently using a 2uf dayton poly cap in series to give me the ~10khz crossover point. I will probably experiment with smaller caps to see how the sound changes, I started with 3uf and it made things a little too bright for my taste, 2uf sounded better to me. I only just got these put together last night so I've only listened to them a few hours.
I was going to use some pillow stuffing from the craft store but then I found a whole bunch of thick blocks of egg crate foam in some shipping boxes that were going in the dumpster at work. I grabbed all I could fit into a big box and used that to cover the back wall of the cabs, the foam is about ~3-4" thick so I didn't put anything on the side walls of the cabs since they are pretty shallow anyway. I'll try and take a couple external pictures of the cabinets when I get home.
I just picked up a used copy of Aja by Steely Dan on vinyl and it sounded pretty sweet. They have nice punchy bass down to i'm guessing somewhere around 70-100ish hz, my little 8" Dayton powered sub filled in the low bass nicely.
Hi jmar,
I am in no position to teach anyone about speaker building. I can teach you how to escape from a headlock or how to twist someone up until they scream. I am no authority on speaker building, it’s just a hobby I enjoy. But I can tell you what I experienced regarding the Pioneer/Piezo. Personally, I prefer the piezo tweeter on the back because on the front it has a ‘bite’ that sometimes calls attention to itself. On the back the treble is more fizzled and soft. It sort of ‘sprays’ out the back filling the air rather than shooting at you. If you can keep the speakers at least 4” from the back wall and don’t have much blocking them on the sides or top I’d recommend the tweeter on the back. If you are limited on space and need both drivers facing forward then do it that way. Either way it’s a very similar sound and remember, the piezo is ‘barely’ there anyway so the ‘bite’ when facing forward is minimal and I only really noticed it when comparing front to back firing tweeters. I bet it would sound good firing the piezo upward too. I believe the reason for the success of the piezo to the B20 is that it's really just enhancing the sound and not a major contributor. This is how i feel piezos should ONLY be used... crossed over very high so you only miss them when they're gone.
Here's another project using a piezo on the back. I think it really helps the 4" TB bamboo driver come alive.
http://www.zillaaudio.com/tb-1320-bamboo.htm
I've also used piezos on the back with Radio Shack 1354's and Fostex 127e's but the Fostex don't really 'require' tweeters imo since they already sparkle a bit too much for my taste (but not really at the tippy top). I think many of the TBs i've tried would benefit from piezos and i look forward to using a pristine pair of 1354's i have brand new in boxes as the only driver on the front and piezos on the back adding just the right amount of 'air'...
I used standard sized lumber which has a width of 11.25” but there is also 9.75” which will also work. Please play with the dimensions to get the desired look you want. This is a sealed box and as long as you keep the box volume between .75 to 1.5 cubic feet you should get a similar sound to what I hear.
Enjoy and please post pics and your opinion of the sound.
gychang, i used the Radio Shack tweeter for my build so yes, those are the exact cap and resistor values. I have a box of cheaper Goldwood piezos... the lemon squeezer kind and rectangular, both large and small... i like both smaller sizes because they can really be made whisper quiet and enhance the sound but the larger piezo (the 3" x 7") has more of a sound that cannot be filtered out imo... It must have a wacky frequency response. Recently i built a project with the large piezo and gave it away to someone in need (a divorced woman who's ex works with me). I will post details on that project in a few days but unless you enjoy boom/tizz i'd stay away from the 'not so subtle' larger piezo.
Godzilla
I am in no position to teach anyone about speaker building. I can teach you how to escape from a headlock or how to twist someone up until they scream. I am no authority on speaker building, it’s just a hobby I enjoy. But I can tell you what I experienced regarding the Pioneer/Piezo. Personally, I prefer the piezo tweeter on the back because on the front it has a ‘bite’ that sometimes calls attention to itself. On the back the treble is more fizzled and soft. It sort of ‘sprays’ out the back filling the air rather than shooting at you. If you can keep the speakers at least 4” from the back wall and don’t have much blocking them on the sides or top I’d recommend the tweeter on the back. If you are limited on space and need both drivers facing forward then do it that way. Either way it’s a very similar sound and remember, the piezo is ‘barely’ there anyway so the ‘bite’ when facing forward is minimal and I only really noticed it when comparing front to back firing tweeters. I bet it would sound good firing the piezo upward too. I believe the reason for the success of the piezo to the B20 is that it's really just enhancing the sound and not a major contributor. This is how i feel piezos should ONLY be used... crossed over very high so you only miss them when they're gone.
Here's another project using a piezo on the back. I think it really helps the 4" TB bamboo driver come alive.
http://www.zillaaudio.com/tb-1320-bamboo.htm
I've also used piezos on the back with Radio Shack 1354's and Fostex 127e's but the Fostex don't really 'require' tweeters imo since they already sparkle a bit too much for my taste (but not really at the tippy top). I think many of the TBs i've tried would benefit from piezos and i look forward to using a pristine pair of 1354's i have brand new in boxes as the only driver on the front and piezos on the back adding just the right amount of 'air'...
I used standard sized lumber which has a width of 11.25” but there is also 9.75” which will also work. Please play with the dimensions to get the desired look you want. This is a sealed box and as long as you keep the box volume between .75 to 1.5 cubic feet you should get a similar sound to what I hear.
Enjoy and please post pics and your opinion of the sound.
gychang, i used the Radio Shack tweeter for my build so yes, those are the exact cap and resistor values. I have a box of cheaper Goldwood piezos... the lemon squeezer kind and rectangular, both large and small... i like both smaller sizes because they can really be made whisper quiet and enhance the sound but the larger piezo (the 3" x 7") has more of a sound that cannot be filtered out imo... It must have a wacky frequency response. Recently i built a project with the large piezo and gave it away to someone in need (a divorced woman who's ex works with me). I will post details on that project in a few days but unless you enjoy boom/tizz i'd stay away from the 'not so subtle' larger piezo.
Godzilla
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Hi Coreyk78! Your guess about how deep a sealed B20 goes is probably just about right. I bet the Dayton subwoofer blends nicely.
http://www.zillaaudio.com/pioneerb20-3cubox.htm
I listened a lot to the way the piezo blends into the B20 and find a 2uf cap contributes too strongly. I am not surprised a 3uf cap was too bright. You do have the Lpad and for front mounting the piezo i think you made a wise decision bc you can turn down (or up) the volume if you want. The 10khz 'blend' into the B20 is gradual at 6db per octave but the piezo response rises below 10k and i hear it as the tweeter calling attention to itself rather than just providing the air and extension. If you want to play some more i'd suggest a 1uf or .68uf cap for the front and keep your Lpad to adjust volume as you like. I will admit the .47uf cap, tho ideal for me forward facing, is subtle in its contribution. And of course, there really is no right or wrong when deciding on a tweeter to blend with the B20 only personal taste.
Piezo Super Tweeter
Godzilla
http://www.zillaaudio.com/pioneerb20-3cubox.htm
I listened a lot to the way the piezo blends into the B20 and find a 2uf cap contributes too strongly. I am not surprised a 3uf cap was too bright. You do have the Lpad and for front mounting the piezo i think you made a wise decision bc you can turn down (or up) the volume if you want. The 10khz 'blend' into the B20 is gradual at 6db per octave but the piezo response rises below 10k and i hear it as the tweeter calling attention to itself rather than just providing the air and extension. If you want to play some more i'd suggest a 1uf or .68uf cap for the front and keep your Lpad to adjust volume as you like. I will admit the .47uf cap, tho ideal for me forward facing, is subtle in its contribution. And of course, there really is no right or wrong when deciding on a tweeter to blend with the B20 only personal taste.
Piezo Super Tweeter
Godzilla
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I want to ask --
For this application it seems that the piezo is actually better than other conventional tweeter types, dome etc.
Is it because they are actually better suited for superhighs (more responsive and flatter)? 10k or > ?
I know they use piezo a lot in applications beyond the limit of human hearing.
Radar too if I remember right.
For this application it seems that the piezo is actually better than other conventional tweeter types, dome etc.
Is it because they are actually better suited for superhighs (more responsive and flatter)? 10k or > ?
I know they use piezo a lot in applications beyond the limit of human hearing.
Radar too if I remember right.
I see many posts calling for the Goldwood GT-1005 piezo tweeter from Parts Express for use with the Pioneer B20FU20-51FW. There have also been some cheap piezos available on eBay. While these tweeters are cheap, they are not of the same quality as the original CTS/Motorola KSN-1005. Many people are under the mistaken assumption that the CTS/Motorola KSN-1005 is no longer available. However, the piezos with the original manufacturing specifications are now being made by PiezoSource and have been available for several years.
Piezo Source - your source for Piezo components
CTS Tweeters, High Frequency Tweeters and Horns- CTS formerly Motorola for good quality and cost effective systems. CTS speaker upgrades. CTS tweeters here.
Martin Sound page 33
Piezo Source - your source for Piezo components
CTS Tweeters, High Frequency Tweeters and Horns- CTS formerly Motorola for good quality and cost effective systems. CTS speaker upgrades. CTS tweeters here.
Martin Sound page 33
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an inverted dome tweeter mounted a bit back of the B20 mounting plane w/ a 2.2 uf and a potentiometer does rather nicely!
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