I'm still trying to figure out what it is that this is supposed to be removing from the B+. Is Wave or anyone else suggesting that the amp output wave is in the B+ at the first filter and now a supplemental decoupling is required? What are we trying to eliminate from the B+ that "blurs" the image?
Here is an article that may shed some light on what we are eliminating:
http://ejta.org/archive/articles2007/kunchur1.zip
http://ejta.org/archive/articles2007/kunchur1.zip
Well, if we reread the first post, Wave put 2uf in parallel with 235uf. That's 237uf, AFAIK. Now if we assume the 2uf is "fast release" what would that do to improve a filtering that already has 235uf? Smooth the 120hz ripple by how much more? Or does it remove something that has yet to be named....? So far described as "invisible."
Yes, I am still puzzled. I can't think of non-ideal audio behaviour in a capacitor which would be significantly improved by adding 1% of near-ideal capacitance in parallel. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I have not yet seen a plausible explanation or even a clear description. You would need some high-order nonlinearity for a small capacitor to fix it. Most device nonlinearities are low order. Maybe its just our old friend RF interference?
Invisible by the tool that rectifies output signal and plots results of fast Fourier transform on the screen does not mean it is invisible for other methods. I suspect if to make a bridge like I proposed earlier (100 Ohm in series with 2 uF and corresponding times lower in series with an electrolytic cap), something may be seen in the bridge's diagonal. I suspect, it will be something with phase shift modulated by signal.
According to experiments (I've posted a link on one article today earlier) 10 microsecond only smears binaural localization.
Dare I say it?
Maybe dialectric absorbsion in the electrolitics is:
-much larger then in the mkp's
-different between left and right channel.
Maybe with the Film caps you created a lower impedance path to ground, so the mayority of the AC (from the tubes) goes through those.
Michael (Koster), I believe your Meteor amp used a constant current powersupply, (just like mine) so the powersupply is effectively out of the signal path. Bypassing shouldnt help there if this theory is true...maybe a nice experiment...
I know personally also at least one case were putting a film cap parallel to the 'litics cleared things up.
Also interesting: Wavebourn, if you are using a CLC filter, then bypassing only the cap closest to the rectifier should not work as good as bypassing the one closest to the tubes...
Maybe dialectric absorbsion in the electrolitics is:
-much larger then in the mkp's
-different between left and right channel.
Maybe with the Film caps you created a lower impedance path to ground, so the mayority of the AC (from the tubes) goes through those.
Michael (Koster), I believe your Meteor amp used a constant current powersupply, (just like mine) so the powersupply is effectively out of the signal path. Bypassing shouldnt help there if this theory is true...maybe a nice experiment...
I know personally also at least one case were putting a film cap parallel to the 'litics cleared things up.
Also interesting: Wavebourn, if you are using a CLC filter, then bypassing only the cap closest to the rectifier should not work as good as bypassing the one closest to the tubes...
In order to "muddy" or "blur" the channel seperation, the phase has to be different between the two channels. We see this maximum affect by having the speaker wires reversed on one channel. So if we extrapolte this 10us shift, it equals 100khz. 1/5 of a 20khz signal phase. Now, what is Waves PS (lack of) filtering going to do to create a problem where the two channels have somehow become phase shifted, when the PS B+ is common and identical supplied to both channels?
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A constant phase shift wouldnt matter; the image would only shift left or right.
In order to get this effect, the shift has to be variable, ie constantly changing with the signal flowing through the caps. Now that I think of it, since in a stereo signal left and right channel arent equal, this would introduce exactly the symptoms wavebourn talked about; a blurred stereo image...
In order to get this effect, the shift has to be variable, ie constantly changing with the signal flowing through the caps. Now that I think of it, since in a stereo signal left and right channel arent equal, this would introduce exactly the symptoms wavebourn talked about; a blurred stereo image...
Right!
That's why I believe that non-linear capacitance of electrolytics is the cause of this effect, and shunting them by film (or paper, or mica) caps we linearize them.
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Big,
Is the Cellini you are referring to the one in your thread, "My Cellini"?
Is it built according to the diagram? That set of tubes and OPT?
From my experience sound stage and imaging tend to be biased towards the higher frequencies which is why a Sub can be put anywhere in a room to bolster the low frequency power. REL is a good example of this!
If it is non linear capacitance in the electrolytic caps then do different values of bypass have different effects? Or is there a relationship with the % of capacitance of bypass linked to value of electrolytic?
I am thinking here of notch filters!
Regards
M. Gregg
If it is non linear capacitance in the electrolytic caps then do different values of bypass have different effects? Or is there a relationship with the % of capacitance of bypass linked to value of electrolytic?
I am thinking here of notch filters!
Regards
M. Gregg
I wanna know what current is being carried by the bypass cap. I don't have any amps I can try this on 
They all have either regulated B+ supplies or already use motor run film caps.
Anatoliy, I'm assuming you have a single B+ rail in a stereo amp with no isolation between L and R OPT supply connections. Is this the case?
I'm struggling with the meaning of "non linear capacitance" and exactly how the stereo image loses localization in response...
Michael
They all have either regulated B+ supplies or already use motor run film caps.Anatoliy, I'm assuming you have a single B+ rail in a stereo amp with no isolation between L and R OPT supply connections. Is this the case?
I'm struggling with the meaning of "non linear capacitance" and exactly how the stereo image loses localization in response...
Michael
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