At one time in this thread or the previous incarnation of it, I mentioned that Dave Reich of Classe used to measure off his solder so that each solder joint had precisely the same amount of solder in it.
Look at the images in this thread. Yes..it appears he did indeed do that exact thing.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/172404-pre-amp-balance.html
The only real reason in my mind, that I can think of, is that he heard a difference, if it was not exactly so.
Look at the images in this thread. Yes..it appears he did indeed do that exact thing.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/172404-pre-amp-balance.html
The only real reason in my mind, that I can think of, is that he heard a difference, if it was not exactly so.
Inter-channel capacity for micro level phase differential (or timing/temporal) is all that really counts and even a 15khz rolled off stereo tube amp can achieve nearly light-speed freqs in that respect. It can split hairs better than any digital recording system in existence or on any drawing board.
That's an interesting idea. Has anybody considered what it would take to splice a AES/EBU and/or S/PDIF transmitter in place of the DAC?
I like the hat and the outfit... the chair is not bad either...
wonder how he pays for his needs and things like transportation?? The hat seems warm...
Obviously no hi-fi system for him
_-_-bear
Schematic for the FM tuner is here Sony XDR-F1HD Service Manual free download,schematics,datasheets,eeprom bins,pcb,repair info for test equipment and electronics
There is an I2S output from the chipset but its unclear at first glance if it can be used directly. Pins 15,15 and 17 of IDM1 are the signals in question.
There is an I2S output from the chipset but its unclear at first glance if it can be used directly. Pins 15,15 and 17 of IDM1 are the signals in question.
I think pin 25 of the TUX-DSP01 labeled I2S_Out would be where you'd take the digital output. Is that right? It's not connected to anything.
Will my Benchmark read the digital I2S format at it's coax digital input? Or does it need to be converted to S/PDIF format?
I would be interested in adding a digital output to this, if it's not too involved. but I'm still going to do the analog output mod too, and see how that sounds.
I believe this requires a separate transmitter chip, for example the Cirrus CS8427.
http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS8427_F5.pdf
That device will take an I2S input and output AES/EBU or S/PDIF.
Thanks for the info Joachim and Jacques. Well, since I2S is has 3 different digital streams for clock and data, which are all accounted for on the DSP tuner chip, I think the I2S_OUT (pin #24) may just be a spdif digital output. Sony may have put it there in case they decided to put a digital out on a tuner sometime.
Maybe wishful thinking on my part, but what else would a I2S_OUT be? So, I may try that with my DAC.
I doubt I'll go to the trouble of converting it with an external chip though.
I looked for a data sheet on the DSP Tuner chip, but couldn't find anything. Sony keeps that secret I suppose.
Maybe wishful thinking on my part, but what else would a I2S_OUT be? So, I may try that with my DAC.
I doubt I'll go to the trouble of converting it with an external chip though.
I looked for a data sheet on the DSP Tuner chip, but couldn't find anything. Sony keeps that secret I suppose.
Many 'high-minded' ideas have been put forth. However, the tuner itself has great potential merit, with just a few changes, rather than a complete rebuild. I must agree, that IF I were trying to make a 'receiver' this Sony chip or chips would be very high on my list. This requires more investment than many here can afford, I'm afraid.
I2S requires three signals- bit clock, left/right clock or word clock and the data stream. These are assembled by chips like the Crystal to make an spdif stream. If what the Sony provides can be turned into an SPDIF stream that is compatible (big issue) then the chips are cheap and implementation isn't difficult. However an analog "tuneup" may be simpler and cheaper. It all depends. . .
Listening to the stock unit with an improved FM antenna and Bybee devices on the AC, it is getting closer with a number of FM sources, but still the long term (1 hr) fatigue sets in, that doesn't happen with the Marantz 10. There is a small difference between analog and digital FM, and I do prefer analog.
When I first tried the tuner I was fine with it until it picked up some HD radio. When I first tuned into the U's classical station it showed FM on the front and it sounded good for short time, then I noticed the sound became darker and edgy sounding, and basically unlistenable to me. I saw on the front panel it had picked up the HD radio signal.
I've pretty much wrote off HD Radio for myself, just do to my sound sensitivity. My dad had no problems with it, for casual listening anyway.
Kind of impossible to compare subjective notes though, being in different systems (and I don't have a Marantz 10) and I'm sure the sound varies some from radio to radio.
John
I've pretty much wrote off HD Radio for myself, just do to my sound sensitivity. My dad had no problems with it, for casual listening anyway.
Kind of impossible to compare subjective notes though, being in different systems (and I don't have a Marantz 10) and I'm sure the sound varies some from radio to radio.
John
I listened partly to HD 'Prairie Home Companion' 'multiple dub', and it sounded pretty darn good for awhile. The rest of the time, 3 hrs, two other 'public radio stations' that did some live playback from various sources. These two stations had no HD signal. Still, the tuner was a touch 'gritty' on the highs.
FM broadcast performance
Hi Pavel!
Don't let me put words into your mouth, but I suspect you were making an overall generalization, and one which would not be inaccurate. In my experience, here in the US 95% of all FM broadcasting (virtually all commercial stations) are processed to achieve maximum loudness by multiband compressors and other 'processors' which massively distort and spectrally skew the sound into an unrecognizable mess
. To be the loudest on the radio dial is to attract the most advertising revenue, or so the theory goes.
HOWEVER...
The best non-commercial stations have high-end audio signal chains which can acheive over 100dB s/n at the input to the stereo generator or STL. These stations employ minimal if any compression, and use only an overall long-term time constant AGC to control deviation. With the best tuners this approach can result in an overall s/n of better than 85dB at the receive end. This can be subjectively 6-10dB quieter than a signal with the same single figure s/n rating, but with a flat noise shape, due to the HF de-emphasis in the receiver.
It is true that most FM stereo generators and demultiplexers are the switching type and require HF filtering to eliminate switching artifacts. It is NOT true (as you know) that the system has the resolution of a 38kHz digital sampling system as has been claimed by some. The switching is merely the rate at which the ANALOG subcarrier is steered to the L and R channels. The content which is switched is still entirely analog.
Although some receivers feature pilot cancellation and are flat in HF response to 18kHz or so, most FM stereo reception is band-limited to 15kHz or so. IMHO this is a relatively minor problem, especially to older listeners :<0
Most modern stereo composite signal generation is performed entirely in the digital domain. Like all other 'new' techniques, there were a few generations of really crappy sounding units in the 1990s and early 2000s before the implementation was worked out to an acceptable level of performance. The latest crop uses multiple high-speed DSP chips running 64-bit truncation accuracy to perform the multiplexing.
All of this is a long-winded way to state my opinion (which some will probably discount) that the best current non-commercial FM Stereo broadcasts, when received on a high-performance FM tuner in full quieting can be high fidelity by just about anyone's standards. I believe that they can sound as good as a decent LP played on the same system, maybe not high-end audio, but potentially pretty damn good!
Just my
worth...you notice that my station hedges our bets for listeners by having a webstream as well! Let's not even get into how that sounds...or how the presence of an HD carrier on the station being listened to or an adjacent channel can dirty up a signal...
Howard Hoyt
CE - WXYC 89.3 FM stereo
UNC, Chapel Hill, NC
www.wxyc.org
1st on the Internet
Hi Pavel!
Don't let me put words into your mouth, but I suspect you were making an overall generalization, and one which would not be inaccurate. In my experience, here in the US 95% of all FM broadcasting (virtually all commercial stations) are processed to achieve maximum loudness by multiband compressors and other 'processors' which massively distort and spectrally skew the sound into an unrecognizable mess
. To be the loudest on the radio dial is to attract the most advertising revenue, or so the theory goes.HOWEVER...
The best non-commercial stations have high-end audio signal chains which can acheive over 100dB s/n at the input to the stereo generator or STL. These stations employ minimal if any compression, and use only an overall long-term time constant AGC to control deviation. With the best tuners this approach can result in an overall s/n of better than 85dB at the receive end. This can be subjectively 6-10dB quieter than a signal with the same single figure s/n rating, but with a flat noise shape, due to the HF de-emphasis in the receiver.
It is true that most FM stereo generators and demultiplexers are the switching type and require HF filtering to eliminate switching artifacts. It is NOT true (as you know) that the system has the resolution of a 38kHz digital sampling system as has been claimed by some. The switching is merely the rate at which the ANALOG subcarrier is steered to the L and R channels. The content which is switched is still entirely analog.
Although some receivers feature pilot cancellation and are flat in HF response to 18kHz or so, most FM stereo reception is band-limited to 15kHz or so. IMHO this is a relatively minor problem, especially to older listeners :<0
Most modern stereo composite signal generation is performed entirely in the digital domain. Like all other 'new' techniques, there were a few generations of really crappy sounding units in the 1990s and early 2000s before the implementation was worked out to an acceptable level of performance. The latest crop uses multiple high-speed DSP chips running 64-bit truncation accuracy to perform the multiplexing.
All of this is a long-winded way to state my opinion (which some will probably discount) that the best current non-commercial FM Stereo broadcasts, when received on a high-performance FM tuner in full quieting can be high fidelity by just about anyone's standards. I believe that they can sound as good as a decent LP played on the same system, maybe not high-end audio, but potentially pretty damn good!
Just my
worth...you notice that my station hedges our bets for listeners by having a webstream as well! Let's not even get into how that sounds...or how the presence of an HD carrier on the station being listened to or an adjacent channel can dirty up a signal...Howard Hoyt
CE - WXYC 89.3 FM stereo
UNC, Chapel Hill, NC
www.wxyc.org
1st on the Internet
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