The speakers I have designed are reaching there full volume of 125db (x-max) at 10W so seriously power is not even an issue. If amp A sounds a little bit better but amp B has more "slam" because it has more power, I'm going with amp A. Just to let you know where I'm comming from. The reason home theater systems typically have killawat solid state amps is because that is what they're over compressed inefficient speakers require. These speakers could be connected to an Aiwa boom box and have enough slam. What I'm looking for is detail, low distortion, and natural sounding timber and dynamic range. Hope this helps and doesn't just come across as catch phrases. I know what I mean by those expressions but they might mean something very different to you. Thank every one for there replies so far. I will be posting a picture of the front cabinet including the subwoofer, 3 front speakers, the screen and various gear, very soon.
What about 5.1 DVDA and SACD are the rear channels still not as critical?
I know your not, and I wasn't implying that you were but once the dicussion started he would be there and he would be vocal and argumentitive and he would get me goat and I wouldn't enjoy myself and I would end up being the bigger jerk because of how I reacted to him. So I thought I'd just nip it in the bud and say I got the speaker design down just looking for help on amps. Oh and by the way, I will admit, I've been "that guy" in the past so I'm not hatin' either.
Actually, that's not a bad idea. Aren't they stereo boards thou.
You wouldn't need 7?Jeff
It depends on which kind of board, and how point to point had been implemented. For example, in my amps I use boards for power supplies (rectifiers, filters, voltage stabilizers), for drivers (anode load resistors, coupling capacitors, bias resistors and trimpots), optical compressor boards. The rest is made point to point, like interconnections between boards, between boards and tube sockets, and so on, and resistors and capacitors directly soldered to sockets of input tubes.
What is more significant, is layout. Sometimes people try to place components such a way they look nice, then use extra wires to interconnect them introducing parasitic connections through electromagnetic fields. It may be valid both for PCB and point to point.
Fixing mistakes and tweaking, however, easier for point to point than for PCB: for example, you put an electrolytic capacitor too close to heatsink, and it blew up. You may easily move it when point to point wired, but in case of PCB it is problematic, since ground wires need to go appropriately in order to minimize unwanted feedback and other means ground contamination like ripples that are being filtered by the cap. That's why PCB is better approach when you already know well what and why you do.
Edit: speaking of speakers, I myself prefer phased arrays. Even concrete horn under the floor of my living room contains a pair of 12" drivers.
What is more significant, is layout. Sometimes people try to place components such a way they look nice, then use extra wires to interconnect them introducing parasitic connections through electromagnetic fields. It may be valid both for PCB and point to point.
Fixing mistakes and tweaking, however, easier for point to point than for PCB: for example, you put an electrolytic capacitor too close to heatsink, and it blew up. You may easily move it when point to point wired, but in case of PCB it is problematic, since ground wires need to go appropriately in order to minimize unwanted feedback and other means ground contamination like ripples that are being filtered by the cap. That's why PCB is better approach when you already know well what and why you do.
Edit: speaking of speakers, I myself prefer phased arrays. Even concrete horn under the floor of my living room contains a pair of 12" drivers.
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I do not listen to those so it hasn't been an issue for me but if you want, you certainly can go all tube.
Rich, that's a bit of a generalization. I have specialized in building SE amps that don't behave this way, and my current amplifier can deliver its full power cleanly and with excellent definition to 20Hz - it is quite transparent and not at all easily confused, even in the deep, deep bass - in this respect it generally surpasses most of the PP amps I have heard until pushed way too hard. (My solution is to just design a more powerful SE amp for those moments..) FWIW I think a lot of it has to do with the design choices made, and I have heard many PP as well as SE amps that do not do this right - I have found it is not an inherent limitation of the topology used however.
So true. I prefer p2p for ease of swapping out components. Part of the fun for me is trying out new ideas.
I give up on this site!!! Everyone goes on and on on irrelavent tangents and never answer the original question. No one has suggested a single design yet except in private messages yet everyone wants to argue little side points and talk me out of the things I have already decided! Nevermind I'll just do my own research.
I built a 300B version of this DRD. Love the sound. Although, it doesn't sound like the typical 300B SET. Currently my favorite.
Electra-Print.com 2A3 DRD Amplifier
Angela Instruments also has a 300B 91A on it's website that's been tried and tested. It's a classic design inspired by western electric home theater amp. Many people have built it with good results. Not sure why no one has mentioned this one...
The TubelabSE or Bottlehead amps kits are solid. A quick and dirty way to get good sound and potentially great sound.
There were a few articles in publications like Sound Practices and VTV that had excellent sounding 2A3 designs, but I'd only recommend these for someone with a couple of builds under his belt. Hope this helps.
You come here and ask for some advice, yet don't like it when that discussion has its little ebbs and flows and tangents. The subject was about valve amp use in a surround sound system. Some discussion that is not directly focussed on the very specific answer you want is to be expected. I have found that there can be real gems of knowledge generously provided by contributors when you do not try to apply a tight reign on your thread request. Remember, even though you asked the original question, this is not just about you. The people you you want to contribute are doing so out of their good natured desire to share their experience and knowledge. If you are not appreciative, you will end up with no responses. I don't think it is such a chore to read all of the responses and just take the nuggets of information that are useful to you.
Anyway, I did not think there was too much thread drift at all here and just think you are being impatient. For what it is worth, at the post where you state you give up (post 32) I counted:
10 posts by you
5 posts with specific recommendations as to design or topology
5 posts specifically answering other questions you posted
4 posts with help or advice of a general nature regarding your setup
8 posts that might be seen as not answering specific questions, but mostly still discussing valve equipment in multi-channel setups or high efficiency speaker issues.
Remember also that this thread may be assisting other members with similar questions. Allowing a little freedom of the discussion will encourage others to actually answer your request as well as assist others.
If you were having a chat with your friends and the subject drifted ever so slightly would you take your drink and walk away, or would you still participate in the discussion expecting that your question may eventually get answered, you might discover something else, and perhaps just enjoy the interaction of like minded people discussing what they love?
Cheers,
Chris
...and I'll add a third.
I'm somewhat of a "lurker" on this forum, but I've never failed to receive a positive, helpful response on those occasions when I have posted a reasonable question (or even a stupid one, for that matter). It has also never escaped me that what to do with any advice I receive is my decision alone.
Most of those who contribute to this forum have forgotten more than I'll ever learn about vacuum tube electronics, and I for one am most grateful for their collective willingness to share their time, effort and wisdom.
Thank you all!
I'm somewhat of a "lurker" on this forum, but I've never failed to receive a positive, helpful response on those occasions when I have posted a reasonable question (or even a stupid one, for that matter). It has also never escaped me that what to do with any advice I receive is my decision alone.
Most of those who contribute to this forum have forgotten more than I'll ever learn about vacuum tube electronics, and I for one am most grateful for their collective willingness to share their time, effort and wisdom.
Thank you all!
Quite right. I tend to be a bit hasty,savage & uncompromising (Military background, mid 70's overbored bikes etc), got to a plateau on tube amp designs now for some 40 yrs ago. The skinny sounding designs weeded out long ago. One tends to stick with a compromised design that appears to offer the dynamics that the planet can give but as you rightly say there is good and bad designs around in both. MAybe on the question of power headroom then push pull does have the upper fist capability and efficiency. Getting it right is exactly what this forum is trying to do.
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