Hi Anders,
The guy hosting the site, Jogi, has removed some articles from Klaus Barton, but I found the "Blue Man Tube" this builder used Klaus' ideas regarding the chimney effect, on the pictures you can clearly see that the sockets are mounted on a subchassis so that the desired chimney effect is created:
Blue Man Tube - Ein 6C33C - PP-Amp von Stefan Janssen
The other link is to one of Klaus' amplifiers, although the idea was originally Klaus, it is not so clear to see in his pictures. What his pictures will show, is that he is a very accomplished builder. The amp looks great with the Russian rectifier tubes, brethren to the 6C33C, they use almost as much heater current.
In the beginning Klaus offered his built amps for about 2000,00 German Marks, about 1000 Euro's nowadays. But he stopped since he was receiving threats from the commercial "Hifi world", they said that he should not offer them so cheaply. Klaus was never out to earn money, just to share his amps with other people against a price for what it had cost him to build.
Klaus Trioden Push-Pull Vollverstaerker mit der 6C33, von Klaus
The guy hosting the site, Jogi, has removed some articles from Klaus Barton, but I found the "Blue Man Tube" this builder used Klaus' ideas regarding the chimney effect, on the pictures you can clearly see that the sockets are mounted on a subchassis so that the desired chimney effect is created:
Blue Man Tube - Ein 6C33C - PP-Amp von Stefan Janssen
The other link is to one of Klaus' amplifiers, although the idea was originally Klaus, it is not so clear to see in his pictures. What his pictures will show, is that he is a very accomplished builder. The amp looks great with the Russian rectifier tubes, brethren to the 6C33C, they use almost as much heater current.
In the beginning Klaus offered his built amps for about 2000,00 German Marks, about 1000 Euro's nowadays. But he stopped since he was receiving threats from the commercial "Hifi world", they said that he should not offer them so cheaply. Klaus was never out to earn money, just to share his amps with other people against a price for what it had cost him to build.
Klaus Trioden Push-Pull Vollverstaerker mit der 6C33, von Klaus
Midlife,
You have tempted me!
I've looked a bit in the first link you referred to and I have been tempted to change to get the chimney effect is still an easy way to solve the problem of ventilation.
My top plate is not yet water-cut so it can be changed so I have two questions.
Do you know what the diameter of the hole is and how great the distance must be between the top plate and the sub plate.
Anders
You have tempted me!
I've looked a bit in the first link you referred to and I have been tempted to change to get the chimney effect is still an easy way to solve the problem of ventilation.
My top plate is not yet water-cut so it can be changed so I have two questions.
Do you know what the diameter of the hole is and how great the distance must be between the top plate and the sub plate.
Anders
Hi Anders & others,
below is my "on paper solution", not finished yet. Maybe helps.
Further, why we don't take f.E. an PC fan, about 80x80 mm, with few hundreds rpm, mounted under tube socket - to have forced ventilation? Just slightly to move the air.
Attachments
I have read on Blue Man Tube - Ein 6C33C - PP-Amp von Stefan Janssen and found this text:
"Die Endröhren Sitzer approx. 10mm tiefer auf Fassungsplatten.> Kamineffect."
Then they will have 10mm between the top plate and the sub plate to get chimney effect if you look at the tube's diameter, so I should aim for 70 mm +
@ ma_coule
Very good illustration shows how it can be make, thanks.
Anders
"Die Endröhren Sitzer approx. 10mm tiefer auf Fassungsplatten.> Kamineffect."
Then they will have 10mm between the top plate and the sub plate to get chimney effect if you look at the tube's diameter, so I should aim for 70 mm +
@ ma_coule
Very good illustration shows how it can be make, thanks.
Anders
Hi Anders,
Klaus Barton wrote about the chimney effect, that we should drill a hole in the chassis of at least 75 mm, the hole should be 10 mm larger than the diametre of the tube. The subchassis is mounted 5 mm from the chassis. Holes are drilled in the subchassis around the tube socket to provide ventilation holes for the chimney effect. It goes without saying that the bottom plate of the amplifier should be a perforated material.
In another amp I built I used aluminium plate material with 4 or 5 mm square holes to provide ventilation.
It's true what Klaus says from a thermal point of view, 90% of the ampliers are designed incorrectly. And the 70 Degrees the tube runs cooler due to the chimney effect adds a few years to its life.
I am going to send Ari Polisois a mail to order an SC-SCC to build me 6C33C in PSE, I am really anxious to know how it sounds.
Klaus Barton wrote about the chimney effect, that we should drill a hole in the chassis of at least 75 mm, the hole should be 10 mm larger than the diametre of the tube. The subchassis is mounted 5 mm from the chassis. Holes are drilled in the subchassis around the tube socket to provide ventilation holes for the chimney effect. It goes without saying that the bottom plate of the amplifier should be a perforated material.
In another amp I built I used aluminium plate material with 4 or 5 mm square holes to provide ventilation.
It's true what Klaus says from a thermal point of view, 90% of the ampliers are designed incorrectly. And the 70 Degrees the tube runs cooler due to the chimney effect adds a few years to its life.
I am going to send Ari Polisois a mail to order an SC-SCC to build me 6C33C in PSE, I am really anxious to know how it sounds.
Ma_Coule,
The P.C.fan will provide additional cooling for sure, I have one in a ready bought Bada headphone amp, but even my wife hears it when it kicks in, these things make a lot of noise. But I have seen them used in various tube amps so they serve a purpose. But they are mostly used in fashionable housings that look very good but where ample ventilation for tubes or components is not provided.
The P.C.fan will provide additional cooling for sure, I have one in a ready bought Bada headphone amp, but even my wife hears it when it kicks in, these things make a lot of noise. But I have seen them used in various tube amps so they serve a purpose. But they are mostly used in fashionable housings that look very good but where ample ventilation for tubes or components is not provided.
Hi Midlife,
I'm speaking about "few hundreds rpm" ... "Just slightly to move the air".
Not hard to find PC fans with less than 25 dB (at 1200 rpm, 100m³/h!) for about 12 EUR.
If your wife can hear that than... I can only say poor man, don't come home late!
Sorry, just a joke!
Hi Midlife,
I'm speaking about "few hundreds rpm" ... "Just slightly to move the air".
Not hard to find PC fans with less than 25 dB (at 1200 rpm, 100m³/h!) for about 12 EUR.
If your wife can hear that than... I can only say poor man, don't come home late!
Sorry, just a joke!
Hi Ma_Coule,
Please don't pity me, I have a very easygoing wife, she is okay with me building tube amplifiers, she even told me that if it would make me happy, she would not object to bigger speakers in the livingroom. And she immediately heard the difference between a tube amp on loan and my Luxman L430 solid state amp, without even seeing which one was on and thus gave me the green light to pursue tubes
Did you ever wonder why I am called Midlife? Yep I am 51 and do you know what people jokingly say every poor soul with a midlife crisis wants? A motorbike or a sportscar. You know what my fantastic wife did not object to? Me buying me a 1978 Harley Davidson Super Glide
Now if she is not a great wife I don't know who is. I am even okay with her objecting to me being home late but she doesn't even do that.
If so, then I should call myself Latelife or even Pastlife...
My age: "To old to rock & roll to young to die!"
Do you mean: "The difference between fathers and boys is the price of their toys"?
OK, joke apart!
BTW, what do you think about the (middle) point of my post?
Banned
Joined 2002
Thanks for that, do you know of one schematic i can use, then i just want a schematic i can go by, and start building, then after i can start tweeking.
Jase
Hi Ma_Coule,BTW, what do you think about the (middle) point of my post?
The middle part of your post, the slow revving PC fan could just be what the 6C33C and the electronic components need. Most people worry about the tubes getting (too) hot, but tend to forget the other electronic components like capacitors, which do not like all that heat.
So if it gets too hot inside my new amp I will certainly consider your solution.
Hi Jase,
Since I just made the decision for myself to build the amplifier as designed by Ari Polisois, I am not in a position to give you advice about which schematic is good or better. I do know that at the beginning of this thread some schematics and links to schematics were posted. Some of them were quite basic and probably just what you are looking for.
The schematic you quoted earlier will work fine, but it looks like it was intended for a load of aprox 1k ohm rather than 600 ohm. So if you build that one, use a 1k load instead of 600R.
There are several designs floating around out there for 600 ohm transformer. I designed and built one using 600R a while back too. The schematic isn't posted online, but I'd be happy to share, if there is any interest. Here is a picture.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It wasn't a cheap build as-is and is quite inefficient (because it's tube rectified and cathode biased). But it is fairly simple and doesn't require the warm up rituals which are common with many 6c33c designs. Power output is aprox 16W per channel and each mono-block consumes aprox 200W. As mentioned earlier, these tubes do run hot in class A. Even though my amp uses a fair amount of ventilation, I wouldn't be surprised if you could roast a marshmallow on the output tube. The caps had to be thermally insulated from the chassis by use of nylon washers/screw. I came across some nylon cap clams which will be used for future builds.
The next project is a Class AB OTL, which uses 1 pair 6c33c per ch. Power output will be about the same, but in general the tubes run much cooler.
Hi Jeb-D,
nice work!
Do you have only natural or even forced ventilation (fan)?
What do you think about forced ventilation?
Jeb D....nice monoblocs you have.
What tube did you use for the first stage?
In 2006 I made these and sound is amaizing.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/71300-photo-gallery-131.html#post1033827
What tube did you use for the first stage?
In 2006 I made these and sound is amaizing.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/71300-photo-gallery-131.html#post1033827
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Hi felixx,
als Bas sagte (as Bas said):
"Mama Mia!! That is one hell of a beautiful build felixx!!!"
Wow Felixx. I imagine you spent a small fortune building those chassis. Excellent work.
To answer your question, the input tube is 6F1P/6BL8/ECF80.
I've heard the 6c33c in a few amps/configurations and think it is in general an excellent sounding tube. Despite the criticism, it is also possible to build amp which measures good using this tube. Even though the 6c33c itself isn't the most linear.
I think these amps sound great when used in a SET friendly setup (as is the case/limitation of most SET amps). They are the primary amps in my home system which I am very much satisfied with (and I've heard several other hi end setups).
The tonality is partially tweak-able. The amp employs adjustable harmonic distortion cancellation. The spectra and THD can be significantly altered by turning a potentiometer.
To answer your question, the input tube is 6F1P/6BL8/ECF80.
It's natural. But I'm thinking it would have been good to go with forced. For class A, I think a low RPM, quiet fan would be a good idea.
I've heard the 6c33c in a few amps/configurations and think it is in general an excellent sounding tube. Despite the criticism, it is also possible to build amp which measures good using this tube. Even though the 6c33c itself isn't the most linear.
I think these amps sound great when used in a SET friendly setup (as is the case/limitation of most SET amps). They are the primary amps in my home system which I am very much satisfied with (and I've heard several other hi end setups).
The tonality is partially tweak-able. The amp employs adjustable harmonic distortion cancellation. The spectra and THD can be significantly altered by turning a potentiometer.
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