I don't think you can ever recreate the sound of any headphones with speakers in room. Headphones lack room interaction and reflection, which are very difficult to deal with. Headphones even the cheaper ones will always sound oncoloured, smooth and clean -- but with that annoying "in the head sound".
Perhaps the best case would be a nearfield monitor using the narrowest directivity speakers available. And that's difficult because generic speakers tend to be omni at lower frequencies.
All else fail, build an anaecohic chamber ?
Perhaps the best case would be a nearfield monitor using the narrowest directivity speakers available. And that's difficult because generic speakers tend to be omni at lower frequencies.
All else fail, build an anaecohic chamber ?
Thanks for the answers so far, i understand the differences that can be expected from room interaction and that the imaging is never going to be the same... it is the "voicing" what i'm trying to reproduce, specially in the midrange and high frequencies.
Unfortunately my english is not very good but i would describe the midrange as live, clear, airy, fun to listen to, and yet not harsh at all.
Thanks for any input
Unfortunately my english is not very good but i would describe the midrange as live, clear, airy, fun to listen to, and yet not harsh at all.
Thanks for any input
I think the closest alternative would be the Guru Speakers, because they follow an extremes studio concept by their author, put in practice, to any headphones actually. It doesn't mean it can not be recreated, it's just the theory behind it.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/116738-guru-speakers.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/121590-cardioid-bass.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/106389-vented-alignments.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/116738-guru-speakers.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/121590-cardioid-bass.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/106389-vented-alignments.html
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Not speakers, but this setup is a close compromise...........
My 3 way vegas sounded vastly better with the divider.
The voice was locked between the speakers instead of a muffled voice ball approximately 3' wide between the speakers.
A time aligned should be better, and a full range driver setup can be even better with the setup. I believe the ambio guy uses full range stereolab electrostatics.
But headphones are such a revealing tool, I don't think speakers can come close (detail, room reflections, etc), at minimum of 5x the cost anyway. Too bad that I'm used to hearing sound AROUND me, like in front of me.
Headphones don't sound natural to me, at all, and I like to feel bass, even at lower levels. But hearing stuff on headphone has made me realize that the room and speakers are the greatest contributor to the sound quality in a room.
I made an ambiophonic demonstrator and brought it to diyIowa 4 years back. Everyone smiled as they heard crickets almost over their left shoulder while looking at 2 tang band w3-871s speakers 18" in front of your face .
I truely believe that 70-80% of what your hear listening to speakers is the room and how the speakers dispersion pattern sounds in that room. I like my horn setup you see as my avatar. My dual 4" full range sounds like the sound is coming from an area the size of a flashlight, versus a real wavefront such as galloping horses or dance music.
Norman
My 3 way vegas sounded vastly better with the divider.
The voice was locked between the speakers instead of a muffled voice ball approximately 3' wide between the speakers.
A time aligned should be better, and a full range driver setup can be even better with the setup. I believe the ambio guy uses full range stereolab electrostatics.
But headphones are such a revealing tool, I don't think speakers can come close (detail, room reflections, etc), at minimum of 5x the cost anyway. Too bad that I'm used to hearing sound AROUND me, like in front of me.
Headphones don't sound natural to me, at all, and I like to feel bass, even at lower levels. But hearing stuff on headphone has made me realize that the room and speakers are the greatest contributor to the sound quality in a room.
I made an ambiophonic demonstrator and brought it to diyIowa 4 years back. Everyone smiled as they heard crickets almost over their left shoulder while looking at 2 tang band w3-871s speakers 18" in front of your face .
I truely believe that 70-80% of what your hear listening to speakers is the room and how the speakers dispersion pattern sounds in that room. I like my horn setup you see as my avatar. My dual 4" full range sounds like the sound is coming from an area the size of a flashlight, versus a real wavefront such as galloping horses or dance music.
Norman
An other solution would be getting the sound out of the head electronically. Probably neither the best nor the cheapest solution, but an example:
QUANTEC - Zero Artifact Room Simulation: Sound Clips
Listen to the two "out of head" clips.
You should check out speakers with constant directivity, like the Linkwitz Orion or similar. What you get with headphones is no room interaction. With constant directivity speakers combined with a good room you will get less annoying room interaction that with regular type of speakers.
I'm proud to say that I do have speakers that surpass my own headphones, which are Sennheiser HD580, HD600 and Beyer DT770 pro:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/142015-my-open-baffle-dipole-beyma-tpl-150-a-83.html
I'm proud to say that I do have speakers that surpass my own headphones, which are Sennheiser HD580, HD600 and Beyer DT770 pro:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/142015-my-open-baffle-dipole-beyma-tpl-150-a-83.html
I have Sennheiser HD580 headphones. The response is not flat, so if you want to duplicate the tonal balance, I would start there. Here is the diffuse field corrected response as measured on a HATS system:
http://ldsg.snippets.org/HORNS/images/headphones/Sennheiser_HD580_response.jpg
If you have a different model you are trying to match, the response might be different.
http://ldsg.snippets.org/HORNS/images/headphones/Sennheiser_HD580_response.jpg
If you have a different model you are trying to match, the response might be different.
I got into DIY because i wanted speakers with the sound of my HD650... and after years of trying around with all sorts of things like fullrange drivers, point sources, ambiophonic setups, digital crossovers, etc, i think you just cant compare speakers and headphones, unless you take the whole room into the equation. All the diffraction and delay effects in the room add to make the sound harsher and muddier than the headphone sound. The speaker itself isnt really important, as you will get accustomed to its tonal balance and it will sound quite right after a short time. The magic of headphones lies in the fact that they take the room out of the equation. Optimise the room and you will get closer to the sound you want.
you can always try something like this...
Grado speakers, WTF?
...ok, just kidding.
if your question was more general on how to get the beauty of open mids (voice) and clean bass from a pair of speakers than probably you should look into OB, a fullrange and a woofer like in MJK projects will get you there for sure, than Stig Erik makes a great point in having the wall behind the speakers dead till the upper-bass region, where it is reasonably doable.
just my 1cent.
Grado speakers, WTF?
...ok, just kidding.
if your question was more general on how to get the beauty of open mids (voice) and clean bass from a pair of speakers than probably you should look into OB, a fullrange and a woofer like in MJK projects will get you there for sure, than Stig Erik makes a great point in having the wall behind the speakers dead till the upper-bass region, where it is reasonably doable.
just my 1cent.
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