YES Cables make a difference since my wife say so !
To start with I have to say that I´m not a believer, or should I say, Was.
I have had my HIFI interest since mid 70s and think of myself as a person with a "healthy" relationship to my hobby. I´ve spent as the most about $15/meter for speaker cables, and about $150 for my most expencive pair of signal cables.
About a year ago I stumbled into the home page of a Swedish HIFI guru from the 702, Josef Svalander. It appeared that he was still active through his company Svalander audio (Svalander Audio AB).
Among other things he was writing on his homepage about him being pleased himself throwing out his $20.000 CD player for a portable PC with a E-MU 1616M sound card.
Interested in that I bought myself the "best" X-FI soundcard within a new HTPC, connected it and tried it with a few to WAV ripped CD (using EAC). Not good. Changed to a E-MU1616M card and there it was, what a sound!
Ripped all my CDs and have now changed them to FLAC to be able to use tags.
I was also remeber him writing about four twinned cables so I went out to my garage and ended up with one four twinned speaker cable made by using an ordinay 1,5mm2 electrical installation cable.
Connected the new cable to one of the speakers and thought something was wrong. There were so mych of a difference between the channels so I swithed around both speaker cables and signal cables to be sure. The diffrence were HUGE. Much more distinct bass, more open and airy mid and treble. More "air" sort of speak. I also really had to check that it was not any difference in loud level, because that can fool you sometimes.
After that I called in my wife without telling here why, played some music first in both channels and then in left and right respectively. I ask here about if could here any difference. She replied (having no what so ever intrerest in sound quality) that the sound was so much better in the left channel and the right speaker sounded bad and strange. So big was the difference between my $15/meter speaker cables and my really sheap diy four twinned cables.
Since then I have made me a pair of speaker cables from single wire 2,5mm2 pure copper cable which sounds beatiful. Have also showed the cables to not HIFI interested friend and they go stunned about their sound quality improvement on their "sheap" systems.
I have also four twinned two set of signal cables. One set out of single wire copper and the other one with 0,1mm2 pure siver wire. Both of them made a diffrence and improvement in quality. I`m now using the silver ones but will switch back to copper as the silver ones make my system (NCD1 amplifier and Thiel speakers) sound a little bit to light.
But guys:
CALBES MAKE A DIFFERENCE
Not obviously by the price though.
To start with I have to say that I´m not a believer, or should I say, Was.
I have had my HIFI interest since mid 70s and think of myself as a person with a "healthy" relationship to my hobby. I´ve spent as the most about $15/meter for speaker cables, and about $150 for my most expencive pair of signal cables.
About a year ago I stumbled into the home page of a Swedish HIFI guru from the 702, Josef Svalander. It appeared that he was still active through his company Svalander audio (Svalander Audio AB).
Among other things he was writing on his homepage about him being pleased himself throwing out his $20.000 CD player for a portable PC with a E-MU 1616M sound card.
Interested in that I bought myself the "best" X-FI soundcard within a new HTPC, connected it and tried it with a few to WAV ripped CD (using EAC). Not good. Changed to a E-MU1616M card and there it was, what a sound!
Ripped all my CDs and have now changed them to FLAC to be able to use tags.
I was also remeber him writing about four twinned cables so I went out to my garage and ended up with one four twinned speaker cable made by using an ordinay 1,5mm2 electrical installation cable.
Connected the new cable to one of the speakers and thought something was wrong. There were so mych of a difference between the channels so I swithed around both speaker cables and signal cables to be sure. The diffrence were HUGE. Much more distinct bass, more open and airy mid and treble. More "air" sort of speak. I also really had to check that it was not any difference in loud level, because that can fool you sometimes.
After that I called in my wife without telling here why, played some music first in both channels and then in left and right respectively. I ask here about if could here any difference. She replied (having no what so ever intrerest in sound quality) that the sound was so much better in the left channel and the right speaker sounded bad and strange. So big was the difference between my $15/meter speaker cables and my really sheap diy four twinned cables.
Since then I have made me a pair of speaker cables from single wire 2,5mm2 pure copper cable which sounds beatiful. Have also showed the cables to not HIFI interested friend and they go stunned about their sound quality improvement on their "sheap" systems.
I have also four twinned two set of signal cables. One set out of single wire copper and the other one with 0,1mm2 pure siver wire. Both of them made a diffrence and improvement in quality. I`m now using the silver ones but will switch back to copper as the silver ones make my system (NCD1 amplifier and Thiel speakers) sound a little bit to light.
But guys:
CALBES MAKE A DIFFERENCE
Not obviously by the price though.
Oh they do?
That must be distortioholic expression
Well they need to be properly engineered tube amplifiers of course
Kurt Von Kubik, where did you learn that the neutral should be three times the size of every phase? Do not ever enter that school again ! ! !
The neutral connector would in worst case need to be as big as the phase cables as they are in 120 (3*120 gr = 360 full circle three phase voltage) degrees phase difference and sort of clearing out each other.
3 phase equipment use the neutral if it needs one phase 220/230 volt inside. If it only has the need for 380/400 volt inside it does not need the neutral connector, and will only use the ground connector (for safety). That how it is.
Except from that, no comments
Have fun
The neutral connector would in worst case need to be as big as the phase cables as they are in 120 (3*120 gr = 360 full circle three phase voltage) degrees phase difference and sort of clearing out each other.
3 phase equipment use the neutral if it needs one phase 220/230 volt inside. If it only has the need for 380/400 volt inside it does not need the neutral connector, and will only use the ground connector (for safety). That how it is.
Except from that, no comments
Have fun
I call "shenanigans." The person making the extraordinary claim either can hear the effects or not. Simple as that. The experimenter can't magically cause the claimant to suddenly go deaf.
If you'd like to propose what you consider an unbiased test, I'm all ears. So far, all you've done is say, "It's no good" without giving any logic.
The easiest way is if You start with 4 wires aligned together in one end (or two wires iwth a bend in the middle to make it be four ones) and thrown out over a table. Then you start with taking the number two from the right and put it over the number thre from the right so the order ould be shifted from 1 2 3 4 to 1 3 2 4 with the right one always shifted over the left one. Then its time to shift number 1 with number 4, always with the riht one over the left one.
Take a look at this: Svalander Audio AB, Kablar
Try to get them as thight and hard tied together as possible. The wires should pass the other one approx with as close to 90dr as possible. Look at the picuters.
Good luck and have fun (not )
Take a look at this: Svalander Audio AB, Kablar
Try to get them as thight and hard tied together as possible. The wires should pass the other one approx with as close to 90dr as possible. Look at the picuters.
Good luck and have fun (not
)
I hope you are only using the Creative sound card as a SPDIF transmitter only, as you´ll have to expect lots of noise if connected to a hifi system through the analog outputs. The groundplanes should be kept apart thoroughly, eventually you should apply separation transformers to provide isolation.
I´ve also tried to make my own cables from a lot of different wires, including single 1,5 mm2 solid core installation wire, both twisted together and separated, and both pairs and starquad konfig. I find starquad a better solution than pairs. But the solid core design also has its sonic signature. It has a very detailed, distinct, dry and precise reproduction of low end frequencies, this to a degree where it actually is drawing your attention to it. And to me, exactly that is its weakness as well as its strength.
Btw. it seems to me that you have very different induction values in your 15$ cable and your home made one.
Btw. My cable history starts in theearly eighties, where Monster Cable introduced some of the first commercial cables. I´va had both the originals and the first Powerline, but then I tried out zipcord once again and handed the Powerlines on to someone else. Later on I encountered the Van den Hul cable program: CS12, SCS12, SCS6, D300S, Clearwater and the Furukawa OOC kables.
By now I have 3 different cable set-ups VdH Clearwater and D501 signal cable, Furukaw OCC cables and a complete Canare LV77 and 4S11 set-up.
To this I must say, I find the Canare´s the most honest of them all, in addition they are both beautifull and cheap. The VdH´s are also very good, but slightly more forgiving, which I don´t need.
The OCC´s are very neutral, but slightly grainy as well.
I think that some would more or less call the Canare´s to rough or direct, and they really are. IMHO these really can release the potential of well engineered electronics. The most attractive part of it though is it´s no B.S. marketing, just plain annealed copper, PET insulation and a lovely PVC outerjacket, that both feels and looks very nice.
Termination also has its sonic signature. I like bananas at most in the long run, though naked ends gives the best connection for a few days at least.
I found these, which can be widened a bit to fit 4 mm2 cables elegantly:
http://www.pomonaelectronics.com/do...w.pomonaelectronics.com/images/large/1325.jpg
Also look at their binding posts as well Pomona 3770 Telurium copper,they are brilliant, a real killer @ any price.
Both I and you stand corrected now, because if voltage and current is in phase, the neutral conductor has to be bigger than the individual phase conductors, but not 3 times as I said earlier
, but sqrt 3 times bigger.Try to have a look at this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/Tidskurve-3-faset-sinus.gif
As you see, the reference to neutral is pretty much higher than in a single phase system.
For the other matters: no comments
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The X-FI Creative card is back in the box in the basement for "later use".
Have used the EMUcard with both digital and analouge output and prefer the analogue. the "DAC" inside this card does a good job and spare me connections and eletronic that can change the sound it seems.
Interesting with cables it is. Before using the fourtwinned ones I have tried a few others with the samr result - not good enough for changing to as I overall like my PLY4 cables, as well as the PLY2,5 I use for homecinema use.
As I wrote in not a fanatic and pics up smaller thing hee and there and would say that the four twinning tweak (I guess it could be called that) os one of the gretaes improvements I have had over the years throug different changes.
I guess I´m a little bit conservative about things. It took about a dozen (at least) different test amplifiers at home before swtching out my Accuphase (as well as selling my planars). But the NCD1 is a good combination of the open sound of a well constructed Tube and the power of some transistor amps. Others might something else
Have used the EMUcard with both digital and analouge output and prefer the analogue. the "DAC" inside this card does a good job and spare me connections and eletronic that can change the sound it seems.
Interesting with cables it is. Before using the fourtwinned ones I have tried a few others with the samr result - not good enough for changing to as I overall like my PLY4 cables, as well as the PLY2,5 I use for homecinema use.
As I wrote in not a fanatic and pics up smaller thing hee and there and would say that the four twinning tweak (I guess it could be called that) os one of the gretaes improvements I have had over the years throug different changes.
I guess I´m a little bit conservative about things. It took about a dozen (at least) different test amplifiers at home before swtching out my Accuphase (as well as selling my planars). But the NCD1 is a good combination of the open sound of a well constructed Tube and the power of some transistor amps. Others might something else
The EMU card features to my knowledge a Crystal CS4398 DAC chip, which is a wonderfull chip, but the powersupplies in a computer contains enormous amounts of noise, due to their SMPS´s and bad filtering. Be aware that ground plane voltages can be as high as several hundred volts in PC´s, which is the reason why everything has to be turned off before connecting in PC environments.
As E-MU now are owned by Creative and there are the same D/A converter for the frontchannels in the X-FI card as it is in the EMU card it once again shows how much the overall construction has to do with the end result.
If oyu haven´t listened to a EMUcard (with that D/A converter, not everyone has it) try to do so - the difference from other soundcard is significant.
If oyu haven´t listened to a EMUcard (with that D/A converter, not everyone has it) try to do so - the difference from other soundcard is significant.
As E-MU now are owned by Creative and there are the same D/A converter for the frontchannels in the X-FI card as it is in the EMU card it once again shows how much the overall construction has to do with the end result.
If oyu haven´t listened to a EMUcard (with that D/A converter, not everyone has it) try to do so - the difference from other soundcard is significant.
If oyu haven´t listened to a EMUcard (with that D/A converter, not everyone has it) try to do so - the difference from other soundcard is significant.
Tubes sound so much more "real", so we do not have to turn them up to ear splitting levels, to attain "clarity"
I guess that may depend on what SS amp it is compared to.
Wow I thought everyone that does not listen seriously, hooks up their speakers with this type of wire. Get with the program here
Listen seriously? Man, Ì hope for your sake you`re joking
Btw; I`m using twin 9awg for my low mids
Listen seriously? Man, Ì hope for your sake you`re joking
Btw; I`m using twin 9awg for my low mids
If it makes your system sing, then by all means, enjoy it
Another funny hifi-legend. First; define skin-effect. Then; try to do some meashuring.
This simple toy might help. Set it on 2.0meters, 10mm thickness and 50cm separation:
Java calculation of Twin Feed Loudspeaker Cable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaleRider
Correct. Like real thick solid copper wires
In a way but it`s not that simple. There`s definetly a difference in the way a thicker conductor "perform" due to a thinner. And; several thinner conductors, even if their total area is bigger, will not perform with the same authority as you`ll get with thicker wires/conductors.
As usual there`s a lot of opinions on this, more or less based on misunderstandings and theories. Some of those theories might have been good enough back in the tube/horn-days but not for multiway-speakers and SS-amps.
Originally Posted by PaleRider
Correct. Like real thick solid copper wires
In a way but it`s not that simple. There`s definetly a difference in the way a thicker conductor "perform" due to a thinner. And; several thinner conductors, even if their total area is bigger, will not perform with the same authority as you`ll get with thicker wires/conductors.
As usual there`s a lot of opinions on this, more or less based on misunderstandings and theories. Some of those theories might have been good enough back in the tube/horn-days but not for multiway-speakers and SS-amps.
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